Morsi Speech

[expatagogo]

Originally Posted by Jamjoom

Again, this is where we agree. the fundamental difference here is that Egypt is an Islamic country. It is not the same as the US or the UK. Same as Israel that you did not comment on.

Egypt is not "an Islamic country." What gives you the idea it is?

Originally Posted by Jamjoom

If you want man-made laws of land, the US and the UK will be a good choice. and other immigration lands like canada and so on. Even thought the basics of their rules is christian.

I can't speak to the UK or Canada, but the "basics of" the US' "rules" (laws?) is not Christian. What give you the idea it is?

Originally Posted by Jamjoom

For the person that said my count of Christians is incorrect, where do you get your information from. and yes it is incorrect because according to international organizations, christians are actually 6-8 % maximum. This is not the government statistics. If you have other information, share it with us. Regardless of the number which below 10%, and if people vote on the kind of law they want to adopt, Most people here would like to adopt Islamic law with the Christian minority being ruled in their issues by church.

Originally Posted by Jamjoom

Egypt is 90% Muslim, 10% christian state.
Above is accepted by most of the lawmakers here.

So which is it?

10%? 6-8%?

Or is it 14%?

| 100 6

Originally Posted by Jamjoom

Remember, when I say law that does not mean every single law will be divided; only issues related to differences. Christianity does not have a law, really. Christians always followed the law of land they live in except for some issues.

Or maybe because there's no "Christian country"?

[MaidenScotland]

Originally Posted by Jamjoom

-This is the issue. Christians want a religionless country. However, most muslims want an Islamic country. That is religion-based laws. not man-made laws.

-The basics of all US laws is christianity. search "is US a christian nation?" and you will see tons of debates. The basic consequence is that the US is not a non-christian nation.

- THe link you sent is from an article in a no-brand newspaper. Christians always claimed they are in the 10-15% range. However there is nothing to support that claim. Research organizations that worked in Egypt indicated they are in the 5-7% range.
Number of Coptic Christians in Egypt Is Far Less Than Media Estimates, Report Says | CNSNews.com

Also this link from Pew Research. An American-based research group.
Ask the Expert (cont'd) - Pew Research Center
Read the question:

Q: I keep hearing different estimates being cited about how many Christians there are in Egypt. What are the facts?

religious based laws are in fact man made

[MaidenScotland]

Originally Posted by Jamjoom

In Christianity they are.
In Islam ther are not.
This is the confusion.

I think you are the one who is confused.. and for someone who is supposed to be agnostic you don't half beat the drum for Islam.

[MaidenScotland]

Originally Posted by Jamjoom

My issues are not that with Islam. I have issues with religion in general. They are personal.
But Islam does have rules for almost everything and rules to get rules that are not there. It is actually very comprehensive. So there are no laws if you practice Islam that are man-made except for non-religious issues like rent..etc.

Christianity is different. Christianity does not actually have any laws. Jesus lived with the rules of land of the Roman Empire. There are some basic laws but thats about it. Even those rules are debatable. Like Orthodox here practice no divorce and they have text proofs for it. Other christians dont etc.

quote Christianity does not actually have any laws. then two sentences later

There are some basic laws but thats about it

as I said.. you seem confused

[MaidenScotland]

Originally Posted by Jamjoom

My issues are not that with Islam. I have issues with religion in general. They are personal.
But Islam does have rules for almost everything and rules to get rules that are not there. It is actually very comprehensive. So there are no laws if you practice Islam that are man-made except for non-religious issues like rent..etc.

Christianity is different. Christianity does not actually have any laws. Jesus lived with the rules of land of the Roman Empire. There are some basic laws but thats about it. Even those rules are debatable. Like Orthodox here practice no divorce and they have text proofs for it. Other christians dont etc.

So why do you think Islam is not man made but Christianity is?

[expatagogo]

For someone claiming to be from the US, you seem to have missed out on the basics about government.

[MaidenScotland]

Originally Posted by expatagogo

For someone claiming to be from the US, you seem to have missed out on the basics about government.

he is confused.. after all anyone who is an atheist would simply say.. it's all rubbish, all made up.. why you would try and explain something you don't believe in is another of lifes mysteries

[expatagogo]

Originally Posted by Jamjoom

Not true.
@expatagogo I graduated from an ive league in the US and I worked on Medical Public Policy in the US for 2 years in Washington. SO I think I do have something to say. You can argue your way if you want rather than talking about me personally. you do not know me.

Really now? An Ivy and public policy and nowhere along the line did anyone mention the Constitution, the four page document (including the signature page) that is the law supreme in the United States? The same document that prohibits government in religion and religion in government?

Perhaps you should read this wiki about a former Judge, Roy Stewart Moore, because it directly refutes your argument that the US is a "christian country":

Roy Moore - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Roy Stewart Moore (born February 11, 1947) is an American jurist and Republican politician noted for his refusal, as the elected Chief Justice of the Alabama Supreme Court, to remove a monument of the Ten Commandments from the Alabama Judicial Building despite orders to do so from a federal judge. On November 13, 2003, the Alabama Court of the Judiciary unanimously removed Moore from his post as Chief Justice.

One would think a "christian country" would not only allow such a monument, but require it, however this is not so.

Freedom of religion, which is imbibed in the Constitution you seem to be wholly unaware of, also means freedom from religion.

I believe this is the crux of the dissatisfaction with the MB as a whole as Islam asserts there is no compulsion in religion.

[expatagogo]

Originally Posted by Jamjoom

Your point is true. However, as I have explained in a previous post, there is a big difference between what the law says and how the law is practiced. There is also a big difference between the official law and what happens between closed doors.
This is because in order to apply any lawm you need an honest system. this is not the case.
For example, we know that if you steal you go to jail. The application of the law here rests on your ability to prove that someone stole. If that someone was protected, or evidence was not gathered, you cannot apply the law.

A movie like Ides of March discussed this issue, through a different case, though.

What are you talking about?

[expatagogo]

Originally Posted by Jamjoom

-This is the issue. Christians want a religionless country. However, most muslims want an Islamic country. That is religion-based laws. not man-made laws.

-The basics of all US laws is christianity. search "is US a christian nation?" and you will see tons of debates. The basic consequence is that the US is not a non-christian nation.

- THe link you sent is from an article in a no-brand newspaper. Christians always claimed they are in the 10-15% range. However there is nothing to support that claim. Research organizations that worked in Egypt indicated they are in the 5-7% range.
Number of Coptic Christians in Egypt Is Far Less Than Media Estimates, Report Says | CNSNews.com

Also this link from Pew Research. An American-based research group.
Ask the Expert (cont'd) - Pew Research Center
Read the question:

Q: I keep hearing different estimates being cited about how many Christians there are in Egypt. What are the facts?

My point is this: nobody knows how many people fall into which religious identity in Egypt. The link you pointed out, from Pew, says the same thing I've been saying - nobody knows for sure.