Personal Safety for women

[tgrear2008]

Greetings,

I'll be arriving in Egypt late August with the new batch of teachers. Cheers and hurray for that! haha.

I've been reading this forum quite a bit, and have picked up some good info. I appreciate it.

Next year, I might be getting hitched, and then bring my wife with me. That gives me concern. As I read stories and watch debates on Al Jazeera on the epidemic of sexual harassment in Egypt, it certainly gives me doubts to whether it is a good idea to bring her, or just have her wait until I'm finished. I know you guys can't make that decision for me, but, hey ladies...can you comment on the situation on the ground?

Also, is anyone carrying pepper spray, tasers, batons, kobutans, tactical flashlights, or even safety whistles? I assume the whistle and flashlight is fine to carry, but I doubt it about the other stuff- maybe a keychain kobutan.

Let me know. Am I worrying too much? I know I should wait and see when I arrive, but on the other hand, I am not a woman. Is my future wife going to be a prisoner in our apt?

Thanks

[MaidenScotland]

Hello and welcome to the forum
Congratulations on your future nuptials,

Sexual harassment is not new here, just that some will now accept it happens but on saying that.

I have lived here for many years and pre revolution thought nothing of walking home at 2am in the morning or using a taxi to go some distance.. I also used to walk to various places for the exercise,

Now I do not use a taxi to go any further than a couple of miles and only if I know the way..
I also never walk now as I have no one to accompany me.
I never carry a handbag, I use a bumbag,
I do not wear jewellery.
I do not carry any form of weapon..
I know women who are scared to go out alone
I know women who are not scared to go out alone,
I do not know a single women who has not had some sort of harassment.

The choice belongs to your wife and she might find she can handle it.. it also helps when you don't speak Arabic so you have no idea what disgusting whispers they are saying to you.

For me the biggest bugbear is that they always try to get up close and invade my space regardless of how much room there is.. a man passing just loves to brush against you and you might think ohh that is not so bad but when it is constant and daily then it becomes a different matter.


Sorry I cannot tell you what or not to do only that I can tell you my social life/shopping/leisure life has certainly taken a hammering,

[canuck2010]

I'm a guy so this isn't a problem for me, but one suggestion to limit the staring and/or other mild harassment is to invest in a nice dark pair of sunglasses, easy to avoid eye contact that way. I notice so many expats who walk with there head pointed to the ground the entire time. More seriously, the situation is slowly improving with police getting back on the streets. Of course, this does nothing to stop the bad attitude many men have toward women.

Most incidences happen in taxis, so its really important to learn which one's to watch out for (for example some say the older taxi drivers in the black taxis are generally better behaved than the younger ones...), and of course when and where it is safe to use them. One has to be really careful when using a taxi after dark. Pepper spray sounds like a good idea, but maintaining situational awareness is most important. If trouble arises, yelling and raising one's voice gets results.

[tgrear2008]

Originally Posted by MaidenScotland

Hello and welcome to the forum
Congratulations on your future nuptials,

Sexual harassment is not new here, just that some will now accept it happens but on saying that.

I have lived here for many years and pre revolution thought nothing of walking home at 2am in the morning or using a taxi to go some distance.. I also used to walk to various places for the exercise,

Now I do not use a taxi to go any further than a couple of miles and only if I know the way..
I also never walk now as I have no one to accompany me.
I never carry a handbag, I use a bumbag,
I do not wear jewellery.
I do not carry any form of weapon..
I know women who are scared to go out alone
I know women who are not scared to go out alone,
I do not know a single women who has not had some sort of harassment.

The choice belongs to your wife and she might find she can handle it.. it also helps when you don't speak Arabic so you have no idea what disgusting whispers they are saying to you.

For me the biggest bugbear is that they always try to get up close and invade my space regardless of how much room there is.. a man passing just loves to brush against you and you might think ohh that is not so bad but when it is constant and daily then it becomes a different matter.


Sorry I cannot tell you what or not to do only that I can tell you my social life/shopping/leisure life has certainly taken a hammering,

Thanks,

Even if she can handle it, it might be too much for me to put her in that position. I can only make that judgement when I arrive and ultimately it's up to her. It makes me sad to think I might be away from her longer than I wish. I don't want to put her in danger. She's not very big at all. Plus, if someone put their hands on her, I might end up in trouble. Goddamn savages.

[tgrear2008]

Originally Posted by canuck2010

I'm a guy so this isn't a problem for me, but one suggestion to limit the staring and/or other mild harassment is to invest in a nice dark pair of sunglasses, easy to avoid eye contact that way. I notice so many expats who walk with there head pointed to the ground the entire time. More seriously, the situation is slowly improving with police getting back on the streets. Of course, this does nothing to stop the bad attitude many men have toward women.

Most incidences happen in taxis, so its really important to learn which one's to watch out for (for example some say the older taxi drivers in the black taxis are generally better behaved than the younger ones...), and of course when and where it is safe to use them. One has to be really careful when using a taxi after dark. Pepper spray sounds like a good idea, but maintaining situational awareness is most important. If trouble arises, yelling and raising one's voice gets results.

Raising the voice sounds about right, that's why I mentioned the security whistle, of course maybe not for me personally, but a woman might benefit. I've read pepper spray is not allowed in Egypt, but I'll wait till I'm on the ground to determine that. Coming from the states, I would sure love my concealed handgun, but that's a pipe dream! haha

About the taxis, can't you call ahead and get a reputable driver? Is the danger in just getting a random taxi on the street?

I'm not too worried about my own safety. As you said, situational awareness is key, and I like to think I have it. I dont plan on carrying a knife, even though I would like to. Maybe a blunt object on the keychain.

Do you think it is better for women out in El Rehab?

[Lanason]

I live I Rehab and my wife was "followed" by a car with 20 year old learning at her

But she goes in the day on her own to the shops, we do not allow our teenage daughter out on her own but otherwise rehab is very safe.

[tgrear2008]

Originally Posted by Lanason

I live I Rehab and my wife was "followed" by a car with 20 year old learning at her

But she goes in the day on her own to the shops, we do not allow our teenage daughter out on her own but otherwise rehab is very safe.

Awesome, that sounds like the solution. While it's just me, I will live in Maadi. When and if she decides to follow me here until I am finished, we will set up shop in Rehab.

I hope that works, I dont want to think of being apart any longer than we have to be.

[expatagogo]

I never go outside after dark. NEVER.
I stopped carrying a handbag when a woman (had to be, I was in the women's car on the tram) cleverly helped herself to my mobile phone. I no longer use the the tram, either.
When I have to walk outside during the day, I crowd up behind a group that has children, so it looks like I'm walking with that group.
I don't carry a weapon because I don't know that I could get to it in time if need be.
I never wear jewelry.
If I have to take a taxi off of the street, I always choose a "beard." As terrible as that might seem, in my experience those fellows are content to turn up their audio Qu'ran and drive, and they don't try to chat me up, nor do they drive with one eye in a mirror staring at me. For arranged rides, I have the number of a fellow with a "beard" who I call and deliberately overpay because I'm grateful he gets me there without incident.

Honestly, I'm a fair haired, fair skinned, light eyed, middle aged western woman, and walking out into the street is like walking into hell. That may not be everyone's experience, but it's mine.

I believe "savages" quite astutely describes it.

ETA: If anyone asks (shop keepers, etc.) where I'm from, I lie and say I'm Canadian because it appears nobody wants a visa to Canada.

[Whitedesert]

Originally Posted by MaidenScotland

Hello and welcome to the forum
Congratulations on your future nuptials,

Sexual harassment is not new here, just that some will now accept it happens but on saying that.

I have lived here for many years and pre revolution thought nothing of walking home at 2am in the morning or using a taxi to go some distance.. I also used to walk to various places for the exercise,

Now I do not use a taxi to go any further than a couple of miles and only if I know the way..
I also never walk now as I have no one to accompany me.
I never carry a handbag, I use a bumbag,
I do not wear jewellery.
I do not carry any form of weapon..
I know women who are scared to go out alone
I know women who are not scared to go out alone,
I do not know a single women who has not had some sort of harassment.

The choice belongs to your wife and she might find she can handle it.. it also helps when you don't speak Arabic so you have no idea what disgusting whispers they are saying to you.

For me the biggest bugbear is that they always try to get up close and invade my space regardless of how much room there is.. a man passing just loves to brush against you and you might think ohh that is not so bad but when it is constant and daily then it becomes a different matter.


Sorry I cannot tell you what or not to do only that I can tell you my social life/shopping/leisure life has certainly taken a hammering,

In principle I go along with what Maiden says, my wife is one of those who still walks around freely, but in Degla, not elsewhere. I am not even certain myself how wise that is, but then she is the kind of woman who wanted to go to Tharir square during the revolution last year. She did have a nasty experience in Rd 254 when a guy on a bicycle drove past and deliberately grabbed her quite hard on the breast (just outside the Little Swiss restaurant). That was one incident involving some form of violence, and on another occasion a guy in a car kept on following her and made suggestions about why it would be great for her to join him in the car. We have, after some deliberation decided, rightly or wrongly not to allow that to affect our quality of life. However, we are South Africans and comes from a violent and crime ridden country that makes Cairo looks like a kinder garden, and we are certainly desensitised to some extent. I guess we are not quite the right example.

[aykalam]

Originally Posted by tgrear2008

Awesome, that sounds like the solution. While it's just me, I will live in Maadi. When and if she decides to follow me here until I am finished, we will set up shop in Rehab.

I hope that works, I dont want to think of being apart any longer than we have to be.

Please do not fall into a false sense of security just because Rehab is a so-called "gated community". Anyone can get in, absolutely anyone, and things do happen here too.

There are areas in Rehab that I never walk around. Going out during the day does not stop the constant harassment and staring, and wearing sunglasses certainly makes no difference (someone mentioned that earlier as a strategy).

I hear horror stories from forum members that live in other areas of Cairo so I guess it makes little difference where you are.

Personally, if I knew then what I know now I would have never moved to Egypt.