Marsa Alam Beach Resort Alarm Bells RINGING

[Eco-Mariner]

I will accept faults were made, much to my consternation in promoting MABR. I told them so at the time, however the Dutch company has been instrumental in these failings and those who allowed the faults to escalate are no longer in those positions.

What I cannot agree with is your summary of the principle you accepted in signing your contracts. IPI may have had the same board of directors, but changes have been made to sort out these issues. Mr. Maan needs to be open, accessible and honest I agree, but cutting off that lifeline by legal confrontation will not serve anyone wisely. I do understand the frustrations; I'm as committed as anyone to see MABR succeed, so are Egyptians in their quest for democracy, but it doesn't happen overnight.


Eco-Mariner

[Dark_Ninja]

Originally Posted by Eco-Mariner

I will accept faults were made, much to my consternation in promoting MABR. I told them so at the time, however the Dutch company has been instrumental in these failings and those who allowed the faults to escalate are no longer in those positions.

What I cannot agree with is your summary of the principle you accepted in signing your contracts. IPI may have had the same board of directors, but changes have been made to sort out these issues. Mr. Maan needs to be open, accessible and honest I agree, but cutting off that lifeline by legal confrontation will not serve anyone wisely. I do understand the frustrations; I'm as committed as anyone to see MABR succeed, so are Egyptians in their quest for democracy, but it doesn't happen overnight.


Eco-Mariner

Are you an invester as well as a seller! All people here approach the postings with an angle! I happen to agree with you but it would be useful to know if your cash is staked in this!

[Eco-Mariner]

Not in a MABR property, but I lost in the cost of promoting it. I do however own in another Red Sea resort and know very well the problems and risks when buying in developing countries.

I saw this project as a model of European construction. Maybe it was started at the wrong time in Egypt's evolution, however IPI's earlier Zafarana project near Ain Suhkna was a sign of what El Sery must not be repeating. I needed to know what the common denominator was in all of Egypt's buy-into resort failings.

The answer is that the Egyptian Tourism Development Authority looked at residential tourism investments as a "cash-cow" and the suckers were us foreigners for promoting for them and for parting with money without guarantees.


Eco-Mariner

[SJH11]

Originally Posted by Eco-Mariner

Not in a MABR property, but I lost in the cost of promoting it. I do however own in another Red Sea resort and know very well the problems and risks when buying in developing countries.

I saw this project as a model of European construction. Maybe it was started at the wrong time in Egypt's evolution, however IPI's earlier Zafarana project near Ain Suhkna was a sign of what El Sery must not be repeating. I needed to know what the common denominator was in all of Egypt's buy-into resort failings.

The answer is that the Egyptian Tourism Development Authority looked at residential tourism investments as a "cash-cow" and the suckers were us foreigners for promoting for them and for parting with money without guarantees.


Eco-Mariner

Do you think the TDA realise they have messed everything up? Are they changing the way they operate?

[Eco-Mariner]

Hardly... All they ever wanted are sales and the proceeds from them. Like any organisation it will have funds from the Ministry of Tourism for promotion which is syphoned off to those whose faces fit the system that the old regime and SCAF still operate.

I think back to a conversation where the TDA admitted they were jealous of the International Tour Operators which took all the profits from selling holidays to Egyptian hotel resorts which International Developers built, because they control the holidaymaker and his money at the point of sale.

Relate that to residential developments and you see how they see how they control an investor at the point of sale. Each service demands payments "up-front".

IPI - El Sery tried to change this by introducing Escrow Accounts which both SCAF and the officials of the TDA hated as they cannot control cash-flow. So what would they do?

Tried sabotaging these projects of course. Hence you see the skeletons of those gone by.
And who are the losers? Investors of course.
Do they care?
Of course not. History proves it.


Eco-Mariner.

[realinvestor]

Hi Eco Mariner

I am astonished you are making such a blanket-negative view of the TDA or Egyptian authorities. Like you I am an experienced Egyptian investor and have had detailed knowledge of both the law and culture. All cases are unique and there have been violations from both individual Egyptian contractors and ALSO INTERNATIONAL companies like IPI. In many cases, it has been marketing companies trying to promote glossy brochures and then taking a 50% cut and profit upfront and with ought the business risk taken on by them and instead being shouldered by local Egyptian companies. As investor in both IPI projects and having very detailed knowledge of both the similarities and differences in both, I certainly put IPI in this category. All the glossy marketing brochures highlighting dodgy due diligence and independent use of escrow funds etc was used to suck in investors. In the Ain Soukhna project they did not even own the land and their contracts were never signed in Egypt. They took a significant amount of profit upfront and left all the business and financial risk to the Egyptian company. When historians and public prosecutors look at all the facts such as the abuse of the Dutch escrow system, false marketing and then the profits being channelled to fund a lavish lifestyle for IPI shareholders such as private charter jets, first-class flight, a private box in a Dutch football stadium and so on....it will become clear that you cannot blame just the Egyptian side of the coin.

[Eco-Mariner]

It becomes clear that realinvestor does not know the difference between "buy-in" practical partnerships and Main Marketing Agencies.... Ain Sukhna was the latter in which IPI learnt the hard way.


Eco-Mariner.

[realinvestor]

Eco Mariner
you seem to be quite naive in underestimating the intelligence of end investors like me and many common-sense IPI malpractice discoveries many of us have made over the past 3 years. Of course I know the difference in the two different scenarios. At least you are admitting that IPI got it wrong in Ain Soukhna and in huge desperation tried to blame everything on their Egyptian partner. But In MABR, there is no Egyptian company to blame as El sery was and is still owned 100% by IPI. So how can you blame the Egyptian authorities or TDA? So, is it really an Egyptian problem when the bulk of MABR's representation in glossy marketing, making false promises and escrow mis-management and potential fraud actually happened in Netherlands? Our hard-earned monies that most of us saved for life in putting all of it up front ( we acted like a bank to IPI) has now been thrown from the smoke-pit in netherlands into the fire pit in Egypt as it would have been safer and more protected in a Dutch escrow rather than El Sery In Egypt

[Eco-Mariner]

I agree in principle with what you state. But you do not want to chastise the Authorities for the mayhem they allowed in bringing our industry into disrepute.

The main issue is Egypt's accountability for Residential Tourism. Then once their books are on the table you will see foreign companies obliging by declaring their own accounts.


Eco-Mariner

[realinvestor]

Eco mariner

You seem to be contradicting yourself. All the comments made by myself and others in a similar capacity are not chastising the TDA. You are the one who brought the SCAF and TDA issues into the MABR discussion forum. When we all look at the facts in MABR it is clear that this is a scam and misrepresentation/mismanagement by IPI and the escrow manager, Eric Mann mainly done in Netherlands and not in Egypt. I actually am talking the view that many Egyptian companies are OK and so is the TDA in many circumstances. For MABR investors we all need to focus on the facts and specific issues that have been uncovered and there is little to point negatively at the TDA in this case.