BC Or Ontario?

[babyblues27]

Ok, here's the thing... my husband and I are planning to move to Canada next year. We've only been to Ontario and wouldn't mind living there. My husband thinks that we should consider BC too. Problem is, we've never been to BC, and we wouldn't know which areas to look into. My husband is a computer technician, and I would probably look into retail or customer service etc. Which areas in BC would you recommend? I would like a few suggestions so I can look at job listings and cost of property etc That way I can factor in our wages and living expenses. We have $30,000 CAD saved for a down payment if we decide to buy our own place, and only enough money to get through the first three months. We would like to secure jobs when we get there. My husband was born in Canada, so he would not have to apply as an immigrant. We have relatives in the Greater Toronto Area, and figured it would be easier to get settled there because my husband would have a place to stay whilst looking for a job. Canada is huge, so we would like to consider all options. Can anyone draw a comparison between the two, so we have a better idea of what to expect? Ontario vs BC, given our financial situation, and jobs.

Thanks in advance.

[Deeana]

Hi,
This is just a personal comment but when we emigrated to Canada in 1990 my husband had family in Toronto and definitely refused to go there because he wanted to strike out on his own. We went to Alberta instead. I can't count the number of times I regretted that decision. We so much needed help from relatives and friends in the first few years, and we knew no-one in Alberta. If I had my time over again I would have started in Ontario and once we knew more about Canada then I would have considered changing provinces. Ontario and BC are totally different propositions from each other. My advice. start in the place where you have support and help and friends, and think yourself very lucky to have that helping hand!

[babyblues27]

Hi Deeana :-)

Thanks so much for your advice.
Please may I ask what kind of challenges or struggles you faced during your first year there? Are there any thing's you wish you had done differently, besides moving to a place where you didn't know anyone? My husband has the same mindset as your husband. He said he doesn't want help from anyone. I explained that it will be comforting to know that we have someone close by. He also seems to think that BC is a more beautiful place, even though he's never even vacationed there. I do agree that we should get settled in Ontario first, and get use to the way of life there, before moving elsewhere. The main thing we worry about is finding jobs. I had a conversation with one of my husbands cousins who moved here recently. She said that we should consider Alberta because there are plenty of available jobs and that we wouldn't have any problems. She lived in Ontario, though.

[Deeana]

I could write a book about this! Life in Canada is very different for the men than for the women. Your husband needs to take into consideration that your needs in a strange place will be different from his. Do you have kids? Are you planning a family? Do you have friends in your home right now? When you change countries every single thing you do becomes a challenge. How do you get a season ticket for the train? Where do you park your car? Why does your car have an electrical cable hanging out the front of the bonnet? Where are the post-offices? How do you get a bank account? Where does the tv come from? The list is endless of course. If you have even just one friend you can ask silly questions of it helps enormously. (Of course, your hubby might already know these things – how long did he live in Canada before?)

I can’t agree that BC is more beautiful than Ontario. It’s just different. More mountains, true, but you can’t spend your life skiing. Ontario is very pretty in places, much more like the UK. And there is plenty of space to spread out – it may be quitge populous but nothing compared to the UK. Vancouver is a very expensive city to live in and full of immigrants too (from China). That isn’t necessary a bad thing but it does make it very competitive.

We found Calgary had plenty of work, but do be aware that as an immigrant you won’t get the plum jobs straight away. You have to get low-paid experience before you will get into the better jobs. That was our experience anyway, as foreigners, although it was very different for our two children, who graduated from Canadian high school and walked into top jobs. Even though my husband was an engineer with 15 years top experience he started work as a painter in a hotel, and I, who was a teacher in the UK, thought myself lucky to get a job in Office Depot.

Realistically it is not fair to expect no problems when you move to Canada unless your jobs are all sorted out ahead of time. This sounds harsh, but it is true, and no less now than 15 years ago. I still keep in touch with friends in Calgary, and I know that even for those moving from Ontario to Alberta the job-search can be heartbreaking. A good friend of mine was quite high up in publishing in Toronto and when she moved to Calgary with her husband (he was promoted within Canadian Tyre) she dropped to a low paid menial job and it truly took her years to get back to where she had started from.

Hope this helps, and I'll happily answer any other questions you might have. I don't want to put you off - but it will repay you to go well prepared. The fact that you don't have to go through the immigration process is a big bonus and will also probably stand your husband in good stead when it comes to getting interviews and so on. What kind of work do you both do?

[babyblues27]

Hi again,

My husband moved to Cyprus when he was a child. I am from the UK, but have spent most of my life in Cyprus. We live on a very small island with a population of one million, and it only takes us two hours to travel from one side of the island to the other. My husband has always wanted to go back to Canada to get a feel of the place. We feel the need to explore new places - someting we can't do here. We don't have any children yet, so I think this will make thing's easier for us. We do wonder about our situation in Canada when we're ready to start a family. I know day care doesn't come cheap. My husband is in IT, and I have administrative experience. I currently work for a Veterinary clinic as an office administrator. I would be happy to work in retail to begin with - anything to pay the bills. We don't expect to find great jobs straight away, but we also don't want to be in the position where we can't afford our living expenses. We fell in love with Canada when we visited last year. The cold weather was a nice change as we are used to the extreme opposite. I think we will be sad about leaving family behind - but life is too short to not try new thing's, and I don't want to spend the rest of my life wondering 'what if'. My husband has relatives in the GTA area - Mississauga and Pickering. We're uncertain of which areas we should look into for housing and jobs. Ideally, we would like to aim for jobs in areas we like. It does make it difficult when you're not familiar with the areas. Finding jobs will be very important, as we will only have enough money to cover bills and rent for the first three months. We have around $30,000 set aside for a downpayment if we do decide to settle there. I know it's going to be hard, but I want to give it our best shot, by making sure we're fully prepared.

[Rok4]

honestly DO NOT move TO Toronto! if you have to move to ONTARIO? DON'T MOVE TO TORONTO! I been living in Toronto for over 12years now. & I am doing everything in my powers to move out of..... NOT only from Toronto, But from ONTARIO OVER ALL!
I'll explain all the problems in here. (p.s. I dont think that lady is very helpful she's just telling you to go there because of family & friends)
Toronto adds a lot of stupid & weird laws, & it's extremely expensive to live here. The traffic here?? Is none stop the only time that there is no traffic is at 12am to 4am. EVERY street every hwy & etc.. are blocked with traffic... ppl in Toronto are extremely RUDE (FOR NO REASON) it is also very hard to get a job. very hard! Specially if you have no one to refer you? (the laws here are made mostly for one reason: TO make profits) & soon they want to add a law where they charge ppl to have a license for a bicycles. & other none sense laws. & everything & everywhere you go has line ups. (you'll be waiting for everything) Also everything else is more costly then every other province. & you have to understand that Ontario's law control everything. (Casinos, liquor stores, & driving license places & everything else is all government owned) other provinces are private owned. Meaning they have a faster & a better system. I decided to leave my family & friends & as a single guy I am dropped everything to move out of here for good (ONTARIO). I really dislike this place. I went to Edmonton, AB for 6months & everything else is cheaper, except groceries. But I was a lot happier there. But because I was by myself I had missed my family so therefore I moved back. But this time I am going to push myself not to make the same mistake again. I would personalty move to Miami,FL or California. instead of Canada. But then again I been in Canada for a long time. (but my reason to wanting to still stay in Canada is because I am in my mid 20's and I got no post-2nd degree education. & I am moving to BC TO Alberta since the life there is much more relaxed then Ontario. And once I finish my college then I would move to where I really want to be. Without a proper career a person on their own is the dumbest thing they could do it wanting to move to a new country. But in your situation is you and your husband so you have a support that I don't. So you're situation is a little different then mine. But my advice to you is: TRY TO avoid ONTARIO all together!
Everyone comes to Toronto because it's already grown. But Toronto does a DAMN good job of covering their horrible life style here. (For someone from the outside.) & the reason I said avoid ONTARIO all together? Is because Canada has provincial laws. And even though moving far from Toronto you can avoid ppl's attitude problem. But the laws that don't make any sense will be all over the province. & Toronto's Mayor David Miller? This guy is just an idiot. He adds dumb laws that only frustrates people. He doesn't do anything to help the citizens but he does keep on adding a price tag on anything that he can think of. Toronto used to be good place to live, under the old Mayor that is. But NOT ANYMORE since 5years ago since David idiot came into the picture. (it hasn't been the same)
So to answer you? I don't know BC well enough? But I know the ppl that I talk to from there don't seem rude at all like the ppl in Toronto.& Edmonton, AB was fine I have no problems there making a living I wasn't a fight like here just to survive. (so hope I helped & I gave you the inside info's that you wanted to know)

Feel free to ask anything that I might of left out.

[Newbie_Can_USA]

Im too new to add much flavor for you re. BC but I moved to Toronto in late May this year. My situation is entirely different also (Im single, in my 30s and was a mid-senior investment banker in the US before the credit crisis, just to give you perspective).

My post is to only throw light on the job search aspect of your question. It will take time, prepare for A LOT of time and Id strongly suggest keep more of the $30K you have sitting in cash as a buffer to pay the bills, and misc expenses and dont jump into buying anything till you get settled (you probably already know this).

As I said, I moved here in late May, and I have had a bunch of interviews....and I believe only because I worked for a Fortune 3 all my working life. People say Toronto is the best place to find jobs but there are also people like us - new immigrants (more competition) looking for jobs here. There is also a myth floating around that "Canadian Experience" is something the employers look for and I try not to believe it but after applying for some positions I was completely qualified for, I got a rejection email in 3 hours (I have never seen or heard an HR person that effective to go over my background and send out a rejection - maybe it was just bad luck and I try to think the position was already filled..as you can see, I try to stay optimistic). But jobs certainly are tough to get...esp the ones one would like to have and not just the "living by the paycheck" kind of jobs. So prepare for that part the most - its been the biggest adjustment. I hope for you that IT is a different story altogether.

I only know 1 friend from High School who moved here so I completely agree with Deanna...move to a place where you have someone to answer even the most silly/simple/basic questions or to just have a beer with on a really tough day cuz you WILL have some...its true!.

Now, the good news...the primary recruitment season here starts in September through January (or so I hear) so you should time your arrival in that part of the year if you dont have jobs. On the other hand, if you have jobs, you have already fought half the battle.

Sorry for the blabber but I wanted to give you some clarity behind my experiences.
Good Luck.

[ChungyUK]

Originally Posted by Newbie_Can_USA

Im too new to add much flavor for you re. BC but I moved to Toronto in late May this year. My situation is entirely different also (Im single, in my 30s and was a mid-senior investment banker in the US before the credit crisis, just to give you perspective).

My post is to only throw light on the job search aspect of your question. It will take time, prepare for A LOT of time and Id strongly suggest keep more of the $30K you have sitting in cash as a buffer to pay the bills, and misc expenses and dont jump into buying anything till you get settled (you probably already know this).

As I said, I moved here in late May, and I have had a bunch of interviews....and I believe only because I worked for a Fortune 3 all my working life. People say Toronto is the best place to find jobs but there are also people like us - new immigrants (more competition) looking for jobs here. There is also a myth floating around that "Canadian Experience" is something the employers look for and I try not to believe it but after applying for some positions I was completely qualified for, I got a rejection email in 3 hours (I have never seen or heard an HR person that effective to go over my background and send out a rejection - maybe it was just bad luck and I try to think the position was already filled..as you can see, I try to stay optimistic). But jobs certainly are tough to get...esp the ones one would like to have and not just the "living by the paycheck" kind of jobs. So prepare for that part the most - its been the biggest adjustment. I hope for you that IT is a different story altogether.

I only know 1 friend from High School who moved here so I completely agree with Deanna...move to a place where you have someone to answer even the most silly/simple/basic questions or to just have a beer with on a really tough day cuz you WILL have some...its true!.

Now, the good news...the primary recruitment season here starts in September through January (or so I hear) so you should time your arrival in that part of the year if you dont have jobs. On the other hand, if you have jobs, you have already fought half the battle.

Sorry for the blabber but I wanted to give you some clarity behind my experiences.
Good Luck.

Hey!

I was in two minds on whether to go to Toronto or Vancouver next year, but now I have decided Vancouver is the right move. What differences are there from the two provinces that are Ontario and British Columbia? In terms of laws, general prices on everyday things and people etc.

Cheers!

[babyblues27]

Hi, thanks for your feedback.
My husband is moving to Toronto in October (flight is booked and he gave his boss notice) so it's a bit too late now to consider another province. His cousin is coming over in a week and he will be going back to Toronto with him on the same flight. He will have a place to stay while he looks for work. We're both very, very nervous about the months to come. My husband will be all by himself, and I'm going to feel devastated that we're so far apart. It's a sacrifice we'll have to make.

We have spoken to a few IT recruiters in Toronto and they've all said that the IT industry is picking up. My husband is a computer/network technician with ten years experience. He used to play basketball profesionally for the Cyprus national team (he's 204cm) and people just love him. Most people can sense that he is a very good guy. I'm sure he will impress employers with his kind, honest nature, as personality is something they do consider too.

I think the success rate depends on many factors, such as luck, timing, who you know, or just plain luck. There's no way of knowing if Toronto is right for us until we try it. I will book my flight as soon as he finds a job and he will start looking for a one bedroom apartment. I will grab the first minimum wage job that comes my way.. whether it be at the mall or at Pet Smart. Work is work, and I'll thank my lucky stars that I have a job. I'll be more than happy if we can afford to pay rent for our own little apartment, and put food on the table. We'll have our TV, internet (for Skype), laptops, pet's, but most importantly eachother!

Personally, I thought people in Toronto were very friendly. You will find rude people wherever you go, but Canadians are friendly generally speaking. A few people asked me about my English accent.. they weren't being nosy.. they were genuinely interested!

We live on a very small island where there is very little opportunity. There is animal cruelty right on our door step. Not a pet friendly country at all, and that makes it difficult when you love animals and have pet's of your own. Please see my petition at the following link: http://www.thepetitionsite.com/6/ani...elty-in-cyprus It will give you a better idea, as dogs and cats are poisoned on a daily basis here.

We could not believe our eyes when we went to Pet Smart in Toronto and saw people pushing their pet's in carts and having their photos taken with santa. wow! we thought. It's a very civilized country compared to where we are now.

At least you have rules and laws over there... just the other day I was driving down the seafront and saw 4 young boys (around 15 years old) doing wheelies on their mopeds. They weren't wearing helmets. There was a police car right in front of us and the police officers were laughing at the kids.. as if to say "that's funny.. we were young once and did exactly the same thing!" it's very common to see young children jumping up and down in the front/back seats of their parents car, or hanging out of the windows. The police do a very bad job at enforcing laws here, and it just encourages more of this bad/dangerous behavior. I want to have children in the future, so I would choose Canada any day for these reasons alone.

So hopefully this will give you a better idea of where we're coming from.. and the major improvements we'll see on a day to day basis. I think we'll be ok if we find jobs. There will be major hurdles in the beginning.. but the rewards will be attainable if we stay strong and focused.

[Newbie_Can_USA]

Again,

Not qualified on laying out the differences for you since I havent been to BC and I havent been in Toronto too long to go through the process but I want to warn you that Vancouver is a much smaller market (less opportunities) and from what I have learned from the posts here, seems more expensive. So keep that in mind when you make that decision. Sorry it seems like a "from the pan in the fire" kind of decision but its also a very personal decision. I chose Toronto since I have family very close to here in the US and I can visit them on a weekly basis if I have to.

Now, compared to the US, prices are definitely higher in Toronto (I dont drive so I cant comment on gas prices). Tax seems to be the driving factor. Flying into Toronto is DEFINITELY more expensive again due to the tax involved (sometimes about 30-35% of your fare whcih I feel is ridiculous).

As far as people are concerned, Id say its a typical cosmopolitan city - lots of diversity, lots of ethic areas which can be fun if you are into that kind of stuff (I am so it forms part of my decision). The public transportation is good if you live in the city but gets to be a little pain if you want to goto areas outside the city.

On another note, I have also heard about violence being higher over in Vancouver (but I dont have any facts to back that up - it could be just heresay)

Good Luck.