Saffa wife on Saffa passport...what a headache - Can you help?

[captain cook]

My wife is an English speaking South African. I am one of the many South Africans with a British passport from British parents. We have been married since 2004, living outside of the UK mostly in Europe where we work in the yachting industry thus we both travel for salaries but travelling together is such a mission as she has to get visa after visa after visa pretty much for any country we go to. Is there another route to making travel with my Saffa wife any easier? We have been through and cxl'd the UK spouse visa application because now we have been informed that she needs to sit an English test to prove that she can read, write & speak English because SA is not considered a majority English speaking country which is understandable because when I last checked there were 14 official languages! My wife does not come from any ethnic background and I cannot believe it is necessary to say this but she is white, with no tribal heritage. Her mother tongue is English; she attended an English school where the language of English was the most common teaching medium except for the subjects she took in Afrikaans and French. This is somehow not good enough for the UK border control as she needs to have university degree that was taught in English...unbelievable but true and anyway who seriously finished their SA degrees in the 90's when the rest of the exciting world opened up thanks to Madiba! What makes this whole issue even more unbearable is that before we were married we lived in the UK for 2 years while Shannon was on a working-holiday visa; not only has she experienced life in Britain but she also has written references from listed UK companies verifying her ability to earn a living and contribute to an economy in English. OK - so I'm blagging but hoping that some of you have experienced the same illogical problems. So my question is do you have any suggestions for us: We work in an industry that is not very well understood but basically we get paid to sail around the globe. We've been based out of Italy & France since 2003 so Shann requires a shengen visa for Europe where I don't have any problems with my UK passport. It would be so much easier if she could travel on my passport but how????? (By the way costs for a UK spouse visa come to a nice round figure of R10,500.00 which includes R2000.00 for the English test - we're not poor or desperate!!!)

[Bevdeforges]

If you're based out of France, you might consider getting your wife a French carte de séjour. You'd have to show "residence" in France (for you, as the EU national) which would probably subject you to French taxation. But with a French carte de séjour, she'd have every right to travel within the Schengen zone without the need for additional visas.

After a certain period of time "resident" in France, I think she could probably move to the UK with minimum paperwork. (It's an EU regulation. You might want to check on europa.eu for details.)

Just a thought, in any event, since you mentioned being based in France.
Cheers,
Bev

[Joppa]

Originally Posted by captain cook

My wife is an English speaking South African. I am one of the many South Africans with a British passport from British parents. We have been married since 2004, living outside of the UK mostly in Europe where we work in the yachting industry thus we both travel for salaries but travelling together is such a mission as she has to get visa after visa after visa pretty much for any country we go to. Is there another route to making travel with my Saffa wife any easier? We have been through and cxl'd the UK spouse visa application because now we have been informed that she needs to sit an English test to prove that she can read, write & speak English because SA is not considered a majority English speaking country which is understandable because when I last checked there were 14 official languages! My wife does not come from any ethnic background and I cannot believe it is necessary to say this but she is white, with no tribal heritage. Her mother tongue is English; she attended an English school where the language of English was the most common teaching medium except for the subjects she took in Afrikaans and French. This is somehow not good enough for the UK border control as she needs to have university degree that was taught in English...unbelievable but true and anyway who seriously finished their SA degrees in the 90's when the rest of the exciting world opened up thanks to Madiba! What makes this whole issue even more unbearable is that before we were married we lived in the UK for 2 years while Shannon was on a working-holiday visa; not only has she experienced life in Britain but she also has written references from listed UK companies verifying her ability to earn a living and contribute to an economy in English. OK - so I'm blagging but hoping that some of you have experienced the same illogical problems. So my question is do you have any suggestions for us: We work in an industry that is not very well understood but basically we get paid to sail around the globe. We've been based out of Italy & France since 2003 so Shann requires a shengen visa for Europe where I don't have any problems with my UK passport. It would be so much easier if she could travel on my passport but how????? (By the way costs for a UK spouse visa come to a nice round figure of R10,500.00 which includes R2000.00 for the English test - we're not poor or desperate!!!)

Despite her marriage to you, your wife is still a South African citizen so she has to comply with any visa requirements attached to her nationality. If she has a resident permit from a Schengen country, then she can travel through Schengen area for 90-in-180 days without any further visa. If she wants to dispense with visa requirements altogether, she has to become a British citizen, and the only way I can see is through naturalisation. She has to live in UK with you for 3 years before she can apply.
As for the Life in the UK test, yes, your wife has to take it prior to applying for naturalisation but she won't have to take an English test or get a qualification in English as her first language is English.

[Joppa]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

If you're based out of France, you might consider getting your wife a French carte de séjour. You'd have to show "residence" in France (for you, as the EU national) which would probably subject you to French taxation. But with a French carte de séjour, she'd have every right to travel within the Schengen zone without the need for additional visas.

After a certain period of time "resident" in France, I think she could probably move to the UK with minimum paperwork. (It's an EU regulation. You might want to check on europa.eu for details.)

Just a thought, in any event, since you mentioned being based in France.

As I've said, a carte de sejour (resident permit) from a Schengen country like France will allow your wife to travel in Schengen without further visa, but it's restricted to 90-in-180 days. This is the official rule anyway.

Yes, if you live and work in France or any other EEA country or Switzerland for at least 6 months, your wife can move to UK with you by a simplified visa called EEA Family Permit, and once in UK, she can apply for UK resident permit valid 5 years, without costly settlement visa or Life in UK test. But as I've said, until she becomes a British citizen, she will still be subject to visa regime as it applies to South African citizens.

[captain cook]

Evening Joppa.
Unfortunately I have heard from the visa office that now the 'official' English test is compulsory and no other support doc's or logic will qualify as an exemption...or do you know otherwise?
Cheers
John

Originally Posted by Joppa

Despite her marriage to you, your wife is still a South African citizen so she has to comply with any visa requirements attached to her nationality. If she has a resident permit from a Schengen country, then she can travel through Schengen area for 90-in-180 days without any further visa. If she wants to dispense with visa requirements altogether, she has to become a British citizen, and the only way I can see is through naturalisation. She has to live in UK with you for 3 years before she can apply.
As for the Life in the UK test, yes, your wife has to take it prior to applying for naturalisation but she won't have to take an English test or get a qualification in English as her first language is English.

[Joppa]

Originally Posted by captain cook

Evening Joppa.
Unfortunately I have heard from the visa office that now the 'official' English test is compulsory and no other support doc's or logic will qualify as an exemption...or do you know otherwise?

According to UK Border Agency | New English language requirement for partners, RSA doesn't qualify as majority English-speaking country so your wife has to pass a test in English or hold a degree taught in English. So I stand corrected!

[captain cook]

Thanks Bev
Is there any reason why we couldn't apply for a EEA Family Permit in the UK? and what would be the logical disadvantages or limitations? It looks as if it's valid for 5 years? and allows her to work....then surely after 3 years Shann could be 'colonised' all over again and toss the green mamba (saffa p/port) away for good???
Cheers
John

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

If you're based out of France, you might consider getting your wife a French carte de séjour. You'd have to show "residence" in France (for you, as the EU national) which would probably subject you to French taxation. But with a French carte de séjour, she'd have every right to travel within the Schengen zone without the need for additional visas.

After a certain period of time "resident" in France, I think she could probably move to the UK with minimum paperwork. (It's an EU regulation. You might want to check on europa.eu for details.)

Just a thought, in any event, since you mentioned being based in France.
Cheers,
Bev

[Joppa]

Originally Posted by captain cook

Thanks Bev
Is there any reason why we couldn't apply for a EEA Family Permit in the UK? and what would be the logical disadvantages or limitations? It looks as if it's valid for 5 years? and allows her to work....then surely after 3 years Shann could be 'colonised' all over again and toss the green mamba (saffa p/port) away for good???

Let me explain, as it's a bit complicated!
EEA Family Permit for someone married to a British citizen is only available if you qualify under the European, rather than purely UK, legislation. Normally those who are nationals of the country cannot avail themselves of European law in their own country, but there is an exception for those who have gone to another EU/EEA country to exercise their community rights, i.e. to live and work there. Then, on returning to their home country, they can bring their non-EU spouse and family members under the EU rules, which supersede usually more restrictive domestic immigration law.
So in your case, provided you have documentary evidence of having worked in a non-UK EU state for at least 6 months, your wife can apply for an EEA Family Permit at a British consulate, which gives her the right to enter UK for up to 6 months, without having to pay for it and without any language and knowledge of UK tests. Then before expiry she can apply for residence permit to the Home Office Border Agency, valid 5 years.
Here it becomes interesting. To be eligible to apply for naturalisation as British citizen, your wife needs to have lived in UK for 3 years, PLUS, on the day of application there is no time limit placed on her stay, i.e. she has indefinite leave to remain. If she had entered under UK immigration law, i.e. after paying for and getting settlement visa and passing English and Life in the UK tests, she would get indefinite leave on arriving in UK and so can apply for naturalisation after 3 years. But those who entered under the EU law will not have indefinite leave until 5 years are up (after EU legislation), shortly before her residence permit expires. So she can only apply for naturalisation after 5 years.

[Punktlich2]

Originally Posted by Joppa

Despite her marriage to you, your wife is still a South African citizen so she has to comply with any visa requirements attached to her nationality. If she has a resident permit from a Schengen country, then she can travel through Schengen area for 90-in-180 days without any further visa. If she wants to dispense with visa requirements altogether, she has to become a British citizen, and the only way I can see is through naturalisation. She has to live in UK with you for 3 years before she can apply.
As for the Life in the UK test, yes, your wife has to take it prior to applying for naturalisation but she won't have to take an English test or get a qualification in English as her first language is English.

All that has been said in this and other replies is true, more or less, as far as it goes. But wait, there's more!

If someone (a TCN, Third Country National) is employed in the EU by an EU firm then under the "Rush Portuguesa" case principle that person is entitled to work, on assignment for that EU firm, anywhere in the EU/EEA/Switzerland for up to 12 months. I assume (but have not checked) that if a visa is required then, like other visas based on EU/EEA/Swiss treaty rights the visa is free & gratis.
celex-txt - 61989J0113 -

There's a long and interesting story behind Rush Portuguesa, Surinder Singh, Chen/Zhu and other similar cases that grant rights to certain TCNs: the arrogant Home Office types never imagined that the European Court of Justice would take a different (and more liberal) approach than their own racist one. Had they imagined it they would have quietly granted the visa without setting any precedent. (Compare the Ramadanoglou case Press Release where the Greek Government quietly rescinded its cancellation of Ramadanoglou's Greek citizenship (under the since-abrogated Art. 19 of the Greek nationality law) faced with the argument that he was exercising his EU rights to take employment in Germany)).

[Joppa]

Originally Posted by Punktlich2

If someone (a TCN, Third Country National) is employed in the EU by an EU firm then under the "Rush Portuguesa" case principle that person is entitled to work, on assignment for that EU firm, anywhere in the EU/EEA/Switzerland for up to 12 months. I assume (but have not checked) that if a visa is required then, like other visas based on EU/EEA/Swiss treaty rights the visa is free & gratis.
celex-txt - 61989J0113 -

OP's question was if there is any way his South African wife can travel in Europe without having to get a visitor (Schengen) visa each time, rather than the right to work in any specific country. As I've said, a long-stay visa from a Schengen country (residence permit) will enable her to travel in Schengen for 90-in-180 days. But a long-stay visa in a non-Schengen country like UK or Ireland (either issued under domestic legislation or EU rules) won't give her the right of visa-free Schengen travel - she will still have to get Schengen visa, though she may be offered a multiple-entry 5-year Schengen visa so she won't have to apply for a fresh visa each time, though she is still restricted to 90-in-180 days. The only way to be completely free from Schengen visa requirement is citizenship from an EEA country or Switzerland.