Spouse/civil partner visa questions - help!

[Badly Drawn Girl]

I was wondering if I could get a bit of advice from other expats here who have moved to the UK. I'm American and my husband is British. We met in New Zealand while on a working holiday, got a civil union here, and now that our visas are up we're heading back to the UK. I am applying for a civil partnership visa, which I was told would be fairly straightforward. However, I'm running into a few things that are making me nervous.

1) The online application that we're required to complete seems REALLY restrictive. It won't even let me type apostrophe's for chrissake! So trying to explain our somewhat complicated residency situation is impossible (because I'm American, I will be applying in the USA, but we will only be there for a few weeks while we visit my family and while my visa is processed). For my address details, I have put our current New Zealand address (where we live together) and for my alternate contact details I've put my American permanent address. For HIS details, they asked for his UK address, so I put that, as well as my USA address for his alternate contact details. But we DO live together! Is that going to raise red flags?? I don't know how else to explain it!

2) The questions about the property we will be occupying - why on earth do they need to know how many rooms in the house there are?? His parents own a flat in Scotland, so we were going to put that, but because we're not actually there at the moment they've rented out the flat, so my partner is concerned that if Immigration do any research into it, they'll see that we don't live there and be suspicious. The only other option I can put is his brother's address, since we'd also be able to stay there until we find a place of our own, but again, we don't OWN that property and other people are living there, because he's been out of the UK for almost two years on a working holiday!

3) The questions about income and "how much does your sponsor spend on living expenses per month" - are they REALLY strict about how much you have to earn in order to bring your spouse into the country?? Again, I found it really difficult to explain that he DOESN'T pay for living expenses on his own, we have a combined income and so we share all expenses.

I wouldn't think this would be at all difficult to understand, but the way that it comes through on the online form, it makes us look really suspicious! Can anyone help relieve my concerns at all? Any advice?

[Bevdeforges]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Though I haven't been through the UK visa process myself (my employer handled my paperwork when I moved there for a year), the issues you raise sound fairly typical of visa applications around the world.

Online applications are a pretty recent development, so if the forms are a bit kludgy, it's pretty much par for the course. And, as you've noticed, the forms are designed for those who fit very strict pigeon holes.

The questions about the property you will be occupying are similar to those on the US forms for a spouse. They want to know that you have accommodation when you arrive (i.e. won't be looking for council housing) and that you won't be the 23rd and 24th residents in a 2 bedroom flat. (If you were trying to bring him back to the US as your spouse, you'd have to prove you have signed a lease already, even though you have no idea when his visa will come through or even if it will be approved. The standard is to prove that the US citizen in the couple is "committed" to return to the US regardless of what happens to the spouse. Always seemed a bit unreasonable to me.)

In most countries they do want the local national to prove that they can provide for the foreigner. Again, this is to keep the foreigner off welfare. A big factor will be the sort of work you do, and how likely it is that you'll be able to find a job when/if they let you into the UK.

In some countries, when they issue a visa to the foreign spouse/partner, there is a restriction on working for the first year or two - in effect, to "prove" that the sponsor really is able to provide for the person. I don't think that's the case for the UK (someone here with recent experience will have to chime in) but they are checking to make sure he isn't a candidate himself for the dole when he gets back.

Just try to think about their concerns - you need to show that you didn't just latch onto this guy as a quick ticket out of wherever you were, that you've actually got a long-term relationship, that you will be able to find and keep a job in the UK and that he is returning to something (i.e. a job, family, etc.) in the UK and not fleeing something he did wrong overseas and looking to sign up for state benefits as soon as the plane touches down.
Cheers,
Bev

[Badly Drawn Girl]

Hi Bev! Thanks for the loads of advice, and for putting my mind at ease. I realize I sounded like a bit of a basket case earlier...which is ironic, because I actually worked in an immigration law office myself, once upon a time! Now I can totally understand why we had panicky clients on the phone all the time...the process is VERY intimidating when you're actually the one under the microscope.

I have a Bachelor's degree from a top-tier American university and have (in my opinion) a stellar resume, so I expect to have no problems whatsoever finding employment in the UK. I tried to make this clear on the online form, but of course they only allow you about fifty characters for any explanations.

Mainly I just want to know that they're not just going to look at what's printed on the form and chuck it into the Rejected bin. It's not like they really gave me a chance to give them any details, anyway...

[jlms]

Originally Posted by Badly Drawn Girl

Hi Bev! Thanks for the loads of advice, and for putting my mind at ease. I realize I sounded like a bit of a basket case earlier...which is ironic, because I actually worked in an immigration law office myself, once upon a time! Now I can totally understand why we had panicky clients on the phone all the time...the process is VERY intimidating when you're actually the one under the microscope.

I have a Bachelor's degree from a top-tier American university and have (in my opinion) a stellar resume, so I expect to have no problems whatsoever finding employment in the UK. I tried to make this clear on the online form, but of course they only allow you about fifty characters for any explanations.

Mainly I just want to know that they're not just going to look at what's printed on the form and chuck it into the Rejected bin. It's not like they really gave me a chance to give them any details, anyway...

What I did when I applied for my own visa (I am married to a German national) was to go to the consulate and ask all these questions. If you must leave the current place where you are, then move back home and apply there, but don't give addresses all around the place, that muddles the waters and confuses the already overworked immigration workers.

If you are living together then provide the address where you are living together, I don't see why you should be providing addresses all around the place. You have an address as a couple, use that. When you move the local postal system should be able to redirect all correspondence for a couple of months to any other given address elsewhere.

Putting the address of your partner's parents or brother is perfectly legitimate, Just tell the truth about your plans (if your plans are to live in a bedroom in somebody else's house, say so, there is no shame on that, most Asian families do exactly that, so immigration people should no question why you would do such a thing).

It would help if your partner moves ahead of you and finds a job (any job!) this would be proof that he can take care of you. When I first came to the UK my partner had been working already for 3 months when I landed in Heathrow.

As a married partner you have automatic rights to live and work in the UK, you'll get a 5 year permit (that may take as much as one year to be issued! so you will need to insist that a temporary document is issued, this may have changed) that will get immigration off your back for that period.

You mention civil partnership instead of marriage. Are you really married? Are you a same sex couple? I don't know what the situation is on either of this regard, in my case I am married in the traditional sense, the process was slow but very straight forward, people just living together or in same sex civil partnerships may experience many other issues I am not familiar with.

Good luck, lets hope you go successfully through all the bureaucratic rigmarole....

[Badly Drawn Girl]

Hi there, and thanks for your input.

To answer your questions:

1) No, we are a heterosexual couple (I'm a girl and he's the boy, for the record lol). The reason we got a civil union is because we knew we would have to have some sort of legal registered partnership in order for us to stay together (seeing as we're both from different countries) but because we're overseas at the moment, we didn't want to have a full-out wedding without our friends or family present.

2A) The reason I've put two separate addresses is because they give you the opportunity to say whether or not the first address will be your point of contact during the application process. If they give you that option, why would they mind listing two addresses?

2B) We do have an "address as a couple," which is currently in New Zealand - however, they ask different questions for me and for him. For me, they ask me what my current address is. For him, they ask what his address in the UK is. Since he is obviously not in the UK at the moment, that is not his current address, but neither will our New Zealand address be our point of contact during the application process. Do you see my confusion?

3) I think my concern about the living situation came from this line on the American visa application website: "Under the Rules you must demonstrate that you have the intention and ability to acquire adequate accommodation of your own or which you occupy yourselves (i.e. a separate unit of accommodation. One room in a shared property may not be acceptable other than on a strictly temporary basis)." Presumably, since we have both been employed for years and have been supporting ourselves since we met, they would consider this "adequate intention and ability"??

[Badly Drawn Girl]

On second thought (in reference to the address thing), perhaps I should just wait until we're actually in the States and then exclude our New Zealand address altogether. But the fact that we're just staying at my temporary US address (it's my parents' place) doesn't really reinforce the fact that we actually live together, so much as our shared NZ address does...

GAH!

[AustinWong]

As mentioned earlier they are just screening the dodgy ones out. If you are above board you will be fine.

Worst thing is they write to you for more information.

Was based in NZ and am not a brit. I hold a malaysian passport and am married to a Nz'er. I have got Right of Abode, which is a residency status for the UK through my mother. I applied for settlement visas for wife and children a year and a bit ago and was also worried, but it is very straight forward.

You will do fine.

Cheers

[izzysmum04]

Originally Posted by jlms

As a married partner you have automatic rights to live and work in the UK, you'll get a 5 year permit (that may take as much as one year to be issued! so you will need to insist that a temporary document is issued, this may have changed) that will get immigration off your back for that period.

This isn't true anymore. You don't have the automatic right to live and work in the UK just because you are married to a Brit. Unfortunately, you don't get that right until the government approves your visa. With a civil partnership or marriage, you must first apply for FLR (Further Leave to Remain), which is for a 2 year probationary period. You then must apply for LTR (Leave to Remain) within 28 days of the FLR expiring. You also must now pass a KOL (Knowlege of Life in the UK) test before you can even apply for LTR.

Badly Drawn Girl, I don't forsee any problems at all with you receiving FLR. As long as you are straightforward and truthful with them, you shouldn't have any problems. One thing I will recommend to you, once you receive it and are living over here....begin to prepare yourself for the ILR you will apply for in 2 years. Make sure you have your name on a bank account, try to have your name attached to your council tax, register for a doctor at your local surgery, have your name put on some utility bills, etc. The reason for this is because when you apply for ILR, they require you to have 20 different pieces of mail addressed to you/ or jointly to you and your partner from the past 2 years. I had a bit more because I tried to save a piece of mail per month. This is to prove you have been living together for the 2 year probationary period. They won't take just any pieces of mail...they must be from official sources. So start collecting as soon as you can once you move and get settled.

Good luck with everything! I am certain you will have your shiny new visa in your passport in no time.

[jlms]

Originally Posted by izzysmum04

This isn't true anymore. You don't have the automatic right to live and work in the UK just because you are married to a Brit. Unfortunately, you don't get that right until the government approves your visa. With a civil partnership or marriage, you must first apply for FLR (Further Leave to Remain), which is for a 2 year probationary period. You then must apply for LTR (Leave to Remain) within 28 days of the FLR expiring. You also must now pass a KOL (Knowlege of Life in the UK) test before you can even apply for LTR.

Badly Drawn Girl, I don't forsee any problems at all with you receiving FLR. As long as you are straightforward and truthful with them, you shouldn't have any problems. One thing I will recommend to you, once you receive it and are living over here....begin to prepare yourself for the ILR you will apply for in 2 years. Make sure you have your name on a bank account, try to have your name attached to your council tax, register for a doctor at your local surgery, have your name put on some utility bills, etc. The reason for this is because when you apply for ILR, they require you to have 20 different pieces of mail addressed to you/ or jointly to you and your partner from the past 2 years. I had a bit more because I tried to save a piece of mail per month. This is to prove you have been living together for the 2 year probationary period. They won't take just any pieces of mail...they must be from official sources. So start collecting as soon as you can once you move and get settled.

Good luck with everything! I am certain you will have your shiny new visa in your passport in no time.

You do have the right to live and work with your spouse if he/she is an EU national, it is an EEA (European Economic Area) treaty, this is prominently explained in the Home Office website and any relevant documentation. I can't imagine Brits are discriminated against in their own country, but one never knows The right is automatic in the sense that is the only requisite you need in order to be allowed to settle in an EEA country.

Of course you have to probe it is not a marriage of convenience and that a real married relationship exists, which is the reason or the probation period, but during such period you are entitled to work and go in and out of the country.

What is news to me is the exam for LTR, I received my LTR a couple of years ago and at no point an exam was mentioned, so this must be quite a fairly new development ( I know that when you apply for British citizenship you have now to pass an exam, so maybe the exam you mentioned was introduced more less at the same time).

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by jlms

You do have the right to live and work with your spouse if he/she is an EU national, it is an EEA (European Economic Area) treaty, this is prominently explained in the Home Office website and any relevant documentation. I can't imagine Brits are discriminated against in their own country, but one never knows The right is automatic in the sense that is the only requisite you need in order to be allowed to settle in an EEA country.

I've seen a number of people quote this EEA rule here on the forum for both Britain and Spain. I have tried in vain to find any reference to this on the French Service-Public website, and in fact I had considerable difficulty myself in getting the right to live and work here in France, even though I am married to a French national. (French law can be like that - as a spouse, I am expected to live with my spouse, but the State can still refuse me a visa to do so.)

I do know that the French still refuse the right to work to the spouse of a French national for at least a year after the marriage (possibly two these days). Personally, I'd jump through whatever hoops they put you through to get the visa that states you have working rights, no matter what that EEA treaty is supposed to say.
Cheers,
Bev