Can spousal visas applications be filed from within the UK

[Minuvweyna]

I actually have not gone ahead with anything yet. My dissertation will not be turned in until the end of October, so I'm not eligible to switch to the post study yet. Then I'm not actually getting married until Sept 2010.

It looks quite straightforward however. Applying for the post study visa should be very easy, the requirements appear to be "did you get a degree from a UK institution?" "do you have £800?" Plus the cost of the application itself, of course. So I'm not very worried there.

The spousal visa should also be straightforward, I think. I'm saving things so that I can prove that I have been living with him. Going to get both sets of in-laws to write supporting letters that we are sappily in love. Photos with his family (with mine is harder since they're far away and we won't get much chance to visit them) but I'll ask them to talk about our visit to the States in the letter. Letters from friends supporting the fact that we are a couple and have been. Also taking and saving lots of photos of us together in various places (alright, mostly parties) but it still shows a relationship. Got a joint bank account, so there should be records available showing when that was opened that should help. I think we'll do fine as far as proving that we have an actual relationship.

To get married in the UK (unless you are having your wedding in the US, and I have to ask "why?" - it's so much prettier here!) you will need a Certificate of Approval which costs £295. Check here for more info UK Border Agency | What is a certificate of approval?
Because you're an American they do not know if you are married outside the UK, so you will need to supply a certificate of no impediment to marry. Since the US has no way of doing this, they will accept a sworn affidavit stating that you are free to marry legally. This website details a bit more about doing that. American Citizens and Foreign Marriages

If you marry in the US your fiance will need to provide a certificate of no impediment to the US, I imagine. I know nothing about how he would do this, though, since my fiance and I didn't consider marrying in the States. My family gets an excuse to finally take that holiday to Scotland. His family neither needs nor wants a reason to visit Michigan - yech, boring!

You will of course also have to get what, in the States, we call a marriage license. When you choose and speak to a celebrant they should go over all the legal requirements with you (at least my humanist celebrant has, not sure if the legal requirements differ at all if you are having a religious or civil ceremony). They probably won't know much if anything about visas, but they can guide you through the local legal bits, so I will leave that up to them.

Good luck!
Elizabeth

[Bevdeforges]

Just to add a bit to what Elizabeth has said, you may want to check the US Consulate's website on getting married in the UK: Embassy of the U.S. London: Consular Affairs: Marriage & Civil Partnerships in England and Wales

I'm not aware of the US requiring a "certificate of non-impediment" for anyone getting married over there, however the requirements vary by county, so anyone contemplating a wedding in the US should check with the jurisdiction in which you're planning to wed. (Be sure to mention that one of the partners is a foreigner.) Normally it's just birth certificate, photo i.d. (passport for the foreigner) and the fee for the license.
Cheers,
Bev

[Punktlich2]

Originally Posted by Bevdeforges

Just to add a bit to what Elizabeth has said, you may want to check the US Consulate's website on getting married in the UK: Embassy of the U.S. London: Consular Affairs: Marriage & Civil Partnerships in England and Wales

I'm not aware of the US requiring a "certificate of non-impediment" for anyone getting married over there, however the requirements vary by county, so anyone contemplating a wedding in the US should check with the jurisdiction in which you're planning to wed. (Be sure to mention that one of the partners is a foreigner.) Normally it's just birth certificate, photo i.d. (passport for the foreigner) and the fee for the license.
Cheers,
Bev

England and Wales, and presumably Scotland and N.I. do not have "certificates of non-impediment". That's what the banns are for. When a UK person intends to marry in a civil-law country that requires such a certificate then (because the UK has no "family register" or "livret de famillie/familienschein") a Register Office clerk issues the banns for such a marriage in respect of the UK party and then a quasi-licence for handing over to the authorities of the other country. Most US embassies will have a procedure for issuing a letter acceptable to the authorities of the country in which they are located serving a similar purpose.

In the UK only certain Register Offices handle marriages involving most foreign nationals are dealt with only at "designated" register offices where staff are trained in immigration matters: http://www.staffordshire.gov.uk/comm...riage/foreign/ Staff will interview each party separately with a view to identifying cases of marriage and immigration fraud.

All US states (or counties within a state) now have Web sites listing the marriage licence requirements there. http://marriage.about.com/cs/marriag...arriagelic.htm summarizes these for each state. Generally photo ID, sometimes a social security card, or for foreigners a passport, plus a fee, an application form, and perhaps a medical certificate, divorce decree or death certificate of prior spouse (if applicable) are needed.

Marriage by, say, a French citizen in a foreign country needs to be reported to the
French consular official responsible for the place of the marriage.

[PeterR]

If you've lived in Scotland for less than two years you do need one (if practicable):
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files...on/rm1text.pdf
Sorry, I can't copy text from that PDF because it is secured.

But if I remember aright (it's 5 years ago now) USA doesn't issue them so my wife couldn't get one, and the registrar will be aware of that.

Peter

[Punktlich2]

Originally Posted by PeterR

If you've lived in Scotland for less than two years you do need one (if practicable):
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files...on/rm1text.pdf
Sorry, I can't copy text from that PDF because it is secured.

But if I remember aright (it's 5 years ago now) USA doesn't issue them so my wife couldn't get one, and the registrar will be aware of that.

Peter

Thanks to OmniPage Pro X:

IF YOU ARE DOMICILED OUTSIDE THE UNITED KINGDOM

The normal procedure of giving notice to the registrar in Scotland must be followed but, as previously mentioned, an additional requirement is placed upon you.

• If, being domiciled in a country outside the UK, you are subject to the marriage laws of that country, you should obtain if practicable, a certificate issued by the competent authority (usually the civil authority) in that country to the effect that there is no impediment to your proposed marriage. If the certificate is in a language other than English you should also produce a certified translation

• In the absence of such a certificate without good reason being shown, it may not be possible for you to marry in Scotland

• If you are now resident in the UK and have lived here for the last two years or more you need not submit such a certificate

• If you are in any doubt about what is required, or if you need further information, you should consult the registrar or write to GROS at the address shown at the start of this leaflet.


Of course the obvious question is: by "domicile" do they mean domiciled under the law of the "other" jurisdiction or under Scots law. Bad use of the term, since it is wildly improbable that a person's domicile would be changed to Scotland under Scots (or English) law except after many years. Or perhaps after the wedding.
http://www.scotlawcom.gov.uk/downloads/rep107.pdf

That's why they have the two-year alternative. But of course there is no registration of domicile in Scotland or England or Ireland the way there is in most of Europe, nor any marking of passport on arrival if the passport is EU/EEA/Swiss.

Under American law one's domicile changes on arrival if one arrives with the intention to remain indefinitely (animus manendi)
In re Estate of Jones (Welshman who spent working life in USA and left to retire in Wales but died aboard the Lusitania: question was whether his illegitimate Welsh daughter or the Crown would inherit; answer depended on his domicile.)

Then there is the matter of "subject to the marriage laws of that country". My daughter having four nationalities, which ones subject her to their marriage laws? (Answer: none of them, except insofar as she is married in that country, and otherwise one of them does require her to send them a copy of her marriage document. The handout wrongly assumes that only domicile is the basis for applicable marriage law; "limping marriages" valid in one country and not in another are actually quite common.) This is a holdover of old laws that restrained from re-marrying persons possessing the nationality or domicile of a country that denied the right to divorce. Italy and Ireland, most notoriously in the past. I wonder whether this rule couldn't be attacked in such cases under EU law. More likely, one can just forum-shop until some Register clerk accepts the application.

So: this is just another bureaucratic hurdle, and one that perhaps damages the economy of Gretna Green, Scotland's Reno.

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by PeterR

If you've lived in Scotland for less than two years you do need one (if practicable):
http://www.gro-scotland.gov.uk/files...on/rm1text.pdf
Sorry, I can't copy text from that PDF because it is secured.

But if I remember aright (it's 5 years ago now) USA doesn't issue them so my wife couldn't get one, and the registrar will be aware of that.

Peter

Interesting to hear how you got around that one. In France they require (or used to - 15 years ago when I got married here) something called a "certificat de coutume" which basically took the place of the non-impediment thing. The Consulate wouldn't do them, so you had to find an attorney, qualified in both France and the US to review your documents and issue what amounted to a certificate of non-impediment.
Pricey little document, too - though the lawyer I worked with claimed that some mairies would accept the certificat de coutume in lieu of some of the official translations. Not all do, however.
Cheers,
Bev

[littleviking]

Hello--

A very long overdue thanks to you Minuvweyna and Bevdeforges for the info! I've been burried under my dissertation which I submitted on Oct. 1. Now I'm waiting for my marks to be finalized so I can apply for my Tier 1 PSW visa. My tutor has said they won't be graded officially until the people who had extensions hand theirs in, which drives me a bit crazy and I'm really wanting to get my visa sorted. I have awhile, as my student visa is valid until the end of Jan. 2010.

Minuvweyna, have you upgraded to PSW Tier 1 yet? I'll have to submit the official letter as I won't have the certification on paper (my degree diploma certificate), although the UKBC site says that will be sufficient. My tutor offered to write a letter (stamped on uni letterhead) saying that I'd passed everything and met all requirements, but it won't have the 'official degree completed status' so I'm wary. Guess I have to wait til the grades are in and pray it happens quick! Just wondering if you have any insight on that process although it does seem pretty straightforward.

Anyhoo, I'm a bit off topic here, apologies. Hope all is well and thanks again!

[Minuvweyna]

I'm afraid I can't give you any reassurance here. I'm a month behind you! My dissertation was submitted on 29 Oct, so I'm in an even tighter time crunch, as my visa also expires on 31 Jan 2010. I have informed them of the problem with visas and they are supposed to try to help get the graders to move at a reasonable pace. I have been encouraged to keep pestering my college office so they can keep on top of the graders. Nevertheless the graders get 8 weeks (and with the holidays coming up, that could really be more like 10 weeks). After that it seems there are more delays, so I am quite frustrated and worried.

Word of advice, when doing a masters degree on a visa, try to avoid life threatening illnesses... immigration authorities seem entirely unmoved by such difficulties for oneself or one's loved ones.

There's my vent for the day. I hope your grades come through quickly, unless you have different regulations I expect you will get yours quite comfortably by the first week of December, it may take a few more weeks to get everything sorted, but I would think you will be able to submit with a few weeks to spare on your visa.

Best wishes,
Elizabeth

Originally Posted by littleviking

Hello--

A very long overdue thanks to you Minuvweyna and Bevdeforges for the info! I've been burried under my dissertation which I submitted on Oct. 1. Now I'm waiting for my marks to be finalized so I can apply for my Tier 1 PSW visa. My tutor has said they won't be graded officially until the people who had extensions hand theirs in, which drives me a bit crazy and I'm really wanting to get my visa sorted. I have awhile, as my student visa is valid until the end of Jan. 2010.

Minuvweyna, have you upgraded to PSW Tier 1 yet? I'll have to submit the official letter as I won't have the certification on paper (my degree diploma certificate), although the UKBC site says that will be sufficient. My tutor offered to write a letter (stamped on uni letterhead) saying that I'd passed everything and met all requirements, but it won't have the 'official degree completed status' so I'm wary. Guess I have to wait til the grades are in and pray it happens quick! Just wondering if you have any insight on that process although it does seem pretty straightforward.

Anyhoo, I'm a bit off topic here, apologies. Hope all is well and thanks again!

[littleviking]

Hi Elizabeth!

Glad to hear I'm not the only one in this situation.. I plan on doing the same, just keeping on top of them til the grades are in! Hope your grades come quickly!! I'll keep you posted about the process. If it comes down to it, can one leave the country and then come back under a tourist visa to get the PSW visa sorted while falling under the UK rate for maintenance fees? Hopefully it won't come to that, as I wouldn't be allowed to work!

I'm meeting with the International Welfare advisor at my uni this week so if I get any info I'll pass it along..

All the best!