EEA national's spouse successfully entered without FP - now what?

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EEA national's spouse successfully entered without FP - now what?


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Old 1st May 2013, 11:37 PM
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Cool EEA national's spouse successfully entered without FP - now what?

Hi all!

This is my first post on this forum, but I and my wife have already greatly benefited from reading the discussions here. Thanks especially to Jrge and Oleander77 for their wonderful advice!

This post has two purposes: 1) to share our experience of entering UK as an EEA national and non-EEA spouse without a Family Permit, and 2) to request advice on the next steps.

----

First the report. The starting point was that I and my Japanese wife were living in Finland. I then accepted a job offer in the UK. There wasn't enough time to apply for a Family Permit for her, because the next available time at the mobile biometric clinic in Helsinki was beyond my job start date. So we decided to go for the "Code 1A" route described on this forum. We simply got on the plane with the following documentation at hand: i) my contract, ii) an extract from the Finnish population registry (official English translation) to prove our marriage, iii) a printed copy of the Border Force Operations Manual EEA Nationals (often quoted on this forum) and iv) a printed copy of the UKBA EEA family permits guidance.

Once arrived, my wife filled in a landing card, indicating that she intended to stay for a number of years (as a Japanese national she would normally be entitled to enter and remain for only six months without a visa). We approached the immigrations together and I simply said that I'm a Finnish national moving to UK to work and that this is my wife. The official checked her passport, noted the absence of a visa or Family Permit, and said that she "needs" one. I said that we didn't have time to apply for one and that we've understood that she could instead get a Code 1A stamp at the border. The official then excused himself and went away with the passport for about three minutes. When he got back, he said everything was ok and stamped the passport. He didn't ask for any documentation such as a marriage certificate at any point. But the stamp that she got is the same 6-month one as she would get when entering the UK as a tourist.

The whole business lasted perhaps five minutes and the official was very polite throughout. However, I wonder what would have happened if we hadn't asserted ourselves and specifically requested the Code 1A. Would he have insisted on a visa and sent her back? Or just eventually given her the Code 1A (i.e. tourist?) stamp? I'm guessing the latter actually. The fact that Japanese nationals can enter for 6 months without a visa perhaps made things easier for us than they are for those entering from visa countries.

----

As for the next steps, I had it all planned out based on what I've read on this forum before: Apply for EEA1 for me and EEA2 for her, both at the same time. However, this border official advised us that she should now apply for a Family Permit within UK. This confuses me. I thought the FP was only needed for getting into the country for in the first place, and that after that its usefulness would be limited. I thought that from now on, the residence card (EEA2) would be the thing that is needed for seeking employment, smoothing subsequent entries, etc. But the official flatly contradicted this, saying that the FP is what gives her EEA rights, establishes the permission work and so on, and that the residence card is not necessarily sufficient documentation for re-entry.

My suspicion is that the official perhaps didn't quite know what he was talking about, and that we should stick with the original plan and go for EEA1 and EEA2 now. But I'd like to hear your opinions -- should she go for EEA2 or FP? To make matters slightly more complicated, she needs to travel abroad for a few days in about 1.5 months from now, so she'd need to have her passport back by then.

----

Again, thanks for providing such a useful resource. I hope my report, too, is of some small use to someone. And if you have any advice on the next steps we should take, we'd be extremely grateful!

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Old 2nd May 2013, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onaka View Post
Hi all!

This is my first post on this forum, but I and my wife have already greatly benefited from reading the discussions here. Thanks especially to Jrge and Oleander77 for their wonderful advice!

This post has two purposes: 1) to share our experience of entering UK as an EEA national and non-EEA spouse without a Family Permit, and 2) to request advice on the next steps.

----

First the report. The starting point was that I and my Japanese wife were living in Finland. I then accepted a job offer in the UK. There wasn't enough time to apply for a Family Permit for her, because the next available time at the mobile biometric clinic in Helsinki was beyond my job start date. So we decided to go for the "Code 1A" route described on this forum. We simply got on the plane with the following documentation at hand: i) my contract, ii) an extract from the Finnish population registry (official English translation) to prove our marriage, iii) a printed copy of the Border Force Operations Manual EEA Nationals (often quoted on this forum) and iv) a printed copy of the UKBA EEA family permits guidance.

Once arrived, my wife filled in a landing card, indicating that she intended to stay for a number of years (as a Japanese national she would normally be entitled to enter and remain for only six months without a visa). We approached the immigrations together and I simply said that I'm a Finnish national moving to UK to work and that this is my wife. The official checked her passport, noted the absence of a visa or Family Permit, and said that she "needs" one. I said that we didn't have time to apply for one and that we've understood that she could instead get a Code 1A stamp at the border. The official then excused himself and went away with the passport for about three minutes. When he got back, he said everything was ok and stamped the passport. He didn't ask for any documentation such as a marriage certificate at any point. But the stamp that she got is the same 6-month one as she would get when entering the UK as a tourist.

The whole business lasted perhaps five minutes and the official was very polite throughout. However, I wonder what would have happened if we hadn't asserted ourselves and specifically requested the Code 1A. Would he have insisted on a visa and sent her back? Or just eventually given her the Code 1A (i.e. tourist?) stamp? I'm guessing the latter actually. The fact that Japanese nationals can enter for 6 months without a visa perhaps made things easier for us than they are for those entering from visa countries.

----

As for the next steps, I had it all planned out based on what I've read on this forum before: Apply for EEA1 for me and EEA2 for her, both at the same time. However, this border official advised us that she should now apply for a Family Permit within UK. This confuses me. I thought the FP was only needed for getting into the country for in the first place, and that after that its usefulness would be limited. I thought that from now on, the residence card (EEA2) would be the thing that is needed for seeking employment, smoothing subsequent entries, etc. But the official flatly contradicted this, saying that the FP is what gives her EEA rights, establishes the permission work and so on, and that the residence card is not necessarily sufficient documentation for re-entry.

My suspicion is that the official perhaps didn't quite know what he was talking about, and that we should stick with the original plan and go for EEA1 and EEA2 now. But I'd like to hear your opinions -- should she go for EEA2 or FP? To make matters slightly more complicated, she needs to travel abroad for a few days in about 1.5 months from now, so she'd need to have her passport back by then.

----

Again, thanks for providing such a useful resource. I hope my report, too, is of some small use to someone. And if you have any advice on the next steps we should take, we'd be extremely grateful!
You got lucky you had a japannies wife who doesn't need visa for 6 months. If she was to be from the high risk countries she wouldn't have been given entrance.

Congradulations & welcome to Britain.

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Old 2nd May 2013, 02:42 AM
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Originally Posted by PinkOrange View Post
You got lucky you had a japannies wife who doesn't need visa for 6 months. If she was to be from the high risk countries she wouldn't have been given entrance.

Congradulations & welcome to Britain.


i disagree,luck has nothing to do with what happen with the op case..
first of all they were lucky to even get to the plane,because with port cases u need to manage to board a plane and then u can seek admission, nevertheless,what happened here is that Japanese citizen don't need visa to travel to the uk,so it was easy to board the plane and seek the code 1A.

second,even visa nationals from high risk countries as u mentioned have the right to seek admission with their eu/eea citizen from any port(i.e calais),as long as they have both passports and can prove that they are married and prove by other means that they are covered by the free movement of citizens of the directive of the europeen union then they are fine and any couple who turns up at port has the right of admission,no matter of race,gender,nationality,it don't matter at all,what is more important is that the non-eea/eu citizen travels or join the sponsor(eea/eu citizen)and if needed i can supply links of success stories.

No visa but still want to travel? | freedom of movement in the EU and
Directive 2004/38/EC | freedom of movement in the EU

and finally,after admission and in the OP case,they can apply straight away for EEA1 and EEA2 in the same time,follow the instructions in the UKBA website, basically u need just both passports,marriage certificate,passport pictures,the contract of work of the EEA national to prove exercising treaty rights and then u have just to wait the long queue.. if u are planing to travel in the next month or so,then it is less likely that u will get the passport back in time,what i suggest is that u submit the application after u come back because once u send an application it could take up to 6 month,check this link below.

Immigrationboards.com :: View topic - EEA2 Application Timelines - ONLY 1 TOPIC - UpToDate

forgot to mention,no need for the family permit,once u are in the uk,u are in the uk..the family permit is an entry clearance,basically its a visa to get to the uk,and needs to be applied from outside of the uk not inside,there is no authority in the uk to issue a visa for this purpose,unless u travel and apply from outside and frankly,it is remotely stupid to do so and i don't know why the IO even asked u to apply for one within the uk.!!!!
once u get to the uk with your spouse,u have the right to apply for the residence cards for both of u straight away if u wish,under eu laws,u are covered when u are exercising your treaty rights as a worker or self-employed or a student or self-sufficient person,and in your case as a worker..so don't worry,it looked like he did not know what he was talking about.

i hope this helps.


Last edited by holborn; 2nd May 2013 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 2nd May 2013, 03:09 AM
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Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by onaka View Post
Hi all!

This is my first post on this forum, but I and my wife have already greatly benefited from reading the discussions here. Thanks especially to Jrge and Oleander77 for their wonderful advice!

This post has two purposes: 1) to share our experience of entering UK as an EEA national and non-EEA spouse without a Family Permit, and 2) to request advice on the next steps.
Welcome to the Forum!

If your spouse is traveling in the near future, I would advise to refrain on applying for the RC now, and to do so once she's back to the UK. As a rule of thumb, when returning please make sure she carries evidence of your marriage/relationship and that you are readily available on the phone, should IO have the need to talk to you.

Well done, Welcome to the UK!

Animo
(Cheers)

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Old 2nd May 2013, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by holborn View Post
forgot to mention,no need for the family permit,once u are in the uk,u are in the uk..the family permit is an entry clearance,basically its a visa to get to the uk,and needs to be applied from outside of the uk not inside,there is no authority in the uk to issue a visa for this purpose,unless u travel and apply from outside and frankly,it is remotely stupid to do so and i don't know why the IO even asked u to apply for one within the uk.!!!!
once u get to the uk with your spouse,u have the right to apply for the residence cards for both of u straight away if u wish,under eu laws,u are covered when u are exercising your treaty rights as a worker or self-employed or a student or self-sufficient person,and in your case as a worker..so don't worry,it looked like he did not know what he was talking about.

i hope this helps.
Thanks for the response! Very helpful, confirms what I thought.

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Old 2nd May 2013, 11:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jrge View Post
Hi,

Welcome to the Forum!

If your spouse is traveling in the near future, I would advise to refrain on applying for the RC now, and to do so once she's back to the UK. As a rule of thumb, when returning please make sure she carries evidence of your marriage/relationship and that you are readily available on the phone, should IO have the need to talk to you.

Well done, Welcome to the UK!

Animo
(Cheers)
Thanks!

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Old 5th May 2013, 10:07 AM
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If your spouse is traveling in the near future, I would advise to refrain on applying for the RC now, and to do so once she's back to the UK.
Hmm now that we think about it, after her first trip we will both go on another trip in a couple of months, and then most likely again later in the autumn. So if we try to wait until a 6-month period during which she stays put in the UK, that might never come.

The EEA2 application form contains the following paragraph:

Quote:
We generally advise that you should not make any travel plans until we have returned your passport. However if you need your passport because you have to travel urgently and unexpectedly, call 0845 010 5200 and provide the personal and other details listed immediately above.
Searching the forum, I've found that spouse visa applications are aborted if you ask them to return the documents, but hopefully this is not the case for EEA1/EEA2?

Happy bank holiday eve

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Old 5th May 2013, 01:20 PM
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Old 5th May 2013, 01:20 PM
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Hi,
Quote:
Originally Posted by onaka View Post
Hmm now that we think about it, after her first trip we will both go on another trip in a couple of months, and then most likely again later in the autumn. So if we try to wait until a 6-month period during which she stays put in the UK, that might never come.

The EEA2 application form contains the following paragraph:........



Searching the forum, I've found that spouse visa applications are aborted if you ask them to return the documents, but hopefully this is not the case for EEA1/EEA2?

Happy bank holiday eve
Asking for her passport will not affect the process unless you clearly withdraw the applications. However, I encourage you to have this sorted out as per European Regulations. Send your applications (EEA1/EEA2) and patiently wait. Those beautiful places y'all want to go to, are always going to be there.

Animo
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Old 5th May 2013, 01:29 PM
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On the whole, insisting on your rights under EU law without complying with what the UK has put in place, i.e. EEA family permit, residence card etc, isn't recommended. It makes life a lot simpler if you just get the expected document and present it at the border. Asking for code 1A stamp (which looks very different from leave to enter as visitor for 6 months) means more work for the border officials, some of whom aren't familiar with it and have to consult their supervisors. The idea of family permit is to speed up the border process, by doing all the background work beforehand at overseas visa stations. By insisting on your derivative EU rights, you are bound to put their back up and may lead to less than pleasant experience at the border, let alone delay.

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