Do you have familiy in Australia?

[newlife33]

Do you have family in Australia? If so, is that why you moved here?

If you do not have family, then do you feel lonely?

[Hazel]

Nope, no family to speak of in Oz. Unless you count hubby and kid who came with me. As for loneliness....well that's a difficult one to answer because emmigrating has its ups and downs all the bloody time. I can only speak for myself here...my kind of loneliness was different than the oh-I-miss-my-mom type. It was during the first 4 months of emmigrating that I went through this dreadful realisation that NOBODY in Oz cared about me (apart from hubby and kid) because they don't know me. I went through a horrid time when I'd walk through a shopping mall and know that I wouldn't recognise a single face and that not even the cashier would give me a familiar smile of acknowlegdment. At least now I've gotten to know the people who work at all my regular haunts and now I can proudly say that I *do* get a smile of recognision all the time : -D. I feel so happy when that happens because it means I have made Australia my home. It is verrrrry uncomfortable in the beginning when you don't know how anything works and you feel like a dumbass a lot of the time. I never feel that kind of loneliness any more. It's gone, gone, gone. I'm sure if I move to a different state in Oz I'd go through that again though. It's not as though I haven't moved to a whole new area in my old country...it's just a completely different thing when it's a foreign country. It's a whole new place, knowing you have an ocean separating you from your old life, the time difference makes it a royal pain to try to contact people from your country of origin...it's ALL these things added on top of each other that just knocks the air right out of you. I also went through a stage where I lost all my self confidence. This didn't happen to hubby so maybe it's just a female thing. I lost confidence because time after time people couldn't understand my English and I couldn't understand theirs and it just started making me feel like a legal alien as the song goes. But it goes away. Hmmm, you've brought back some memories for me and now I feel rather proud of myself that I've come this far without antidepressants, lol. Many a true word said in jest, because I very nearly did go to the doc asking for some!!!! And I've never been Prozac but I REALLY felt like I needed it then. Maybe I just should have because it was a horrible time.

[cmallon]

We started off with my partner's brother and his family going over, now his sister and her family are about to go to. We have decided we might as well join them as the house prices here are getting silly so we might as well sell up, make a profit, get something bigger and nicer over there, be with family again, enjoy the sun, the list just goes on!

[april]

Hi Hazel. I have read a lot about culture shock and it sounds like your experience was very normal. Apparently it is a good thing to feel very bad in the first 4 months (and to also feel resentful of the new culture) as this is your brains way of processing the new environment and comparing it with your old and establishing new routines. My first sign of culture shock was in the second week when I cried in the supermarket. I love to slowly wander around supermarkets in other countries, but in that second week, I had just finished a long day at work and I was tired and hungry. But going grocery shopping in Japan was a huge task as I couldn't read any food lables and didn't recognise 90% of the food because it was either new type of food or totally different packaging. Even many fresh veges were different. I constantly did stuff like buy yoghurt milk instead of normal milk, cheese instead of butter, weird half-cooked eggs instead of normal raw eggs, green-tea flavoured ice-cream, thinking it peppermint, etc.

Apparently between 4-6months, the good days vs bad days swing from one extreme to the next. In my case, it was one minute to the next! After 6-7months, things get much better, but the culture shock effect doesn't wear off until about the 12 month mark. It usually takes that long for people to fully establish what they like and wanna keep about both their new and old culture, and what they want to reject.

A lot of this is sub-conscious too, so most people don't even realise the reason for their moods. I have met some expats here in Japan who swear they don't suffer from culture shock at all, but then continued to ***** and moan about Japanese people for the rest of the evening and complain how stupid and annoying everything in Japan is!

Well anyway, my main point is that in my opinion, for someone to settle down into a new culture long term, they have to go through some really crappy times. It is healthy, but getting through the 4 month mark is a killer. I don't know about in Australia, but here in Japan that is the crunch time for many expats and I have seen quite a few people just up and leave. The great thing is that if you can make it, the feeling after the 6 month mark is awesome!

[Hazel]

Hiiii April : -D So good to see a post from you again!! I must say that out of all the posts I've ever read on this forum, this was the best, most intelligent one. It makes 100 % sense what you've written. How long have you been in Japan now? I'm almost on the 7 month mark now. Gosh, how I ***wish*** somebody had told me this stuff before I came. Well at least hundreds of people in the process of moving countries will benefit from your post. Thank you so very much for saying I'm normal. I think what confused me the most was the fact that I would have culture shock in the first place seeing as I am English-speaking and moved to and English-speaking country. I thought to myself that this is nonsense what I'm feeling because it's not as though I'm moving in the social circles of people completely different to me, like Eskimoes or something!!! What's up with that?? I think YOU have much more right to complain of culture shock seeing as you are in Japan. I thought I shouldn't be feeling this when, unlike you, all the food is recognisable, all the labels are what I'm used to. I take my hat off to you for going through that. That must have been so tough and no wonder you broke down in tears at the supermarket. I have heard a Chinese version of this from my neighbour. She shared with me how when she first arrived from Taiwan *she* couldn't read the labels and didn't know what to do with the vegetables or even how to cook! Poor you and my neighbour...eeeek! I don't know if I'd be strong enough to survive that. I mean, the veggies here are just that: normal veggies. The way we cook here is just the same as in my old country. Wow, I can't imagine what you must have went though. It must have been incredibly frustrating. So tell me, can you read the Japanese lables now?? Or do you just recognise the packages. Tell me about those half cooked eggs?? What are they and what do you do with them? Doesn't sound very appetising to the boring Western pallette, lol.

Okay, so I know now to check myself again after reaching my 1 year anniversary. Hmmm, I can't wait. You know you said at this time you know what you want to keep and toss about about the old and new culture? Well one of my things is what is happening to my accent. Good grief, I don't know what to think of this! Sometimes I start saying my "a's" differently but the thing is, it doesn't sound nice to my ears. If it came out fully Aussie, I'd be like YAY. But it just sounds all screwed up. Have you any pearls of wisdom about that? Like do you know when your accent straightens itself out or your brain decides how it's gonna make your mouth form the words? The reason this bothers me is because I DO want to become fully Aussie but I will never be able to allow my accent to change if it's gonna go all wonky. And then I end up forcing myself to talk like I usually do and that is just putting myself in square one again. I want to make PROGESS, April.

Again, I just wish I'd been told what you said in the last paragraph. ...would have made this journey so much easier. Take care and thanks for the time it took to share this.

[april]

Aaaw....now I am blushing!, ta for the compliments. I feel shy!
Well okay - I have been in Japan about 5 years in total, I first came here in 2001, but I also moved back to Australia for 18 months between then and now (which is how i know about reverse culture shock), and I am not sure when I will return to Australia. just depends on a few things.

I also didn't know about this culture shock stuff until after I went through it all. A friend sent me a paper on it after I had been living in Japan for well over a year, and I read it mouth gaping. It described me to a T! When I was going through what turned out to be culture shock, I thought i was going crazy (seriously i did) or that I was the *****iest person on the planet (as I was extremely critical of Japanese women). i didn't like myself very much, feeling so down and negative, I thought it was my own bad attitude and that i just had to snap out of it. But I couldn't stop myself being so critical of Jp people. I was so relieved to discover that it was something natural, normal and healthy!

I wonder though if living in a new country with the same language makes culture shock worse. My supermarket experience, for example, is a culture shock incident that was plainly obvious and easily explains my uneasy feeling. But I can imagine your experiences would be a lot more subtle, like stuff that bothers you but you just can't put your finger on. You know what I mean? I least i had things I could pinpoint and blame.

I can partly read some food lables now, but mostly I just know what it is from experience - plus TV! I don't watch TV shows, just commercials! That way I can figure out what the products are and how to use them. After I worked out that little trick i never confused floor cleaner with laundry detergent ever again! ha ha!

Those eggs - They were packed in similar containers to normal raw eggs, but they were stacked in the fridge and in place of one egg, there was a packet of sauce, which I hadn't noticed until I got home and then I picked it up quizzically, wondering why on earth it is there...then I cracked the egg and it is already half-cooked! I am not sure what it is used for but I suspect to put on top of noodles or a dish like that. Half-cooked eggs on dishes is quite popular.

As for accents - hee hee! I wish I could hear what you sound like, seems adorable! I don't know of any research papers on this topic, but only personal experience. First, let me tell you about my Austy. She was born and bred in Australia and moved over to Canada in her early 20s to live with her husband. While there, she picked up the strongest Canadian accent ever. She lived there about 10 years I guess. She moved back to Australia about 20 years ago but still has a strong Canadian accent! weird!

As for us expats in Japan, the softening of our own accent and the changes in our speech is a topic we talk about regularly. i teach English as a second language, and my boyfriend is also not a native English speaker, so not only has my speech become more clear and enunciated, I also speak slower with many pauses between clauses, my vocabulary has shrunk, and I question my grammar and idiom accuracy. I will often finish a sentence and ask "Did I say that right??" I also catch myself saying stuff like "I went to shopping today" and "I like very much" which are common mistakes Japanese people make when speaking English. Oh yeah - embarrassing story - I was back in Australia on holiday when I went to a cafe and ordered "One aisu kokoa, and one salada, please." which is how Japanese pronounce ice-cocoa and salad!

Good luck with your culture shock! Remember - you always have me here to listen to you. Feel free to complain and not apologise for it. It is healthy and must be done! (Which is why I didn't jump down the throat of a certain other poster whom I suspect is going through some very bad culture shock....)

[Hazel]

Okay, so you definitely do know what you're talking about with your experience. Five years in total is a long time- including the reverse culture shock experience). Your post made me laugh and basically I think I had the same emotions you experienced when reading that paper on culture shock. Amazing in every way. Why don't people *talk* about this? I suppose we don't want to be labeled a whinging expat, lol. I think every expat should be warned about this. Aaah, when you say you thought it was your own bad attitude and that you had to snap out of it, that was ME to a T!! The thing is that I tried reaching out to this mom at my kid's school who has only been here one month longer than me and she just kind of brushed me off. I think she just didn't want to "go there" and maybe felt that my negativity would bring her down. I can't blame her, it's just that she made me feel isolated with this problem. I mean, I'd look at her when I was feeling so down and there she was smiling away and looking completely adjusted. It *could* have something to do with the fact that she came over with her husband, two kids and her parent's mum and dad and they all live together. Do you think that helps...having a "clan" of your own? Or perhaps it's just differences in personality...like I packed on 10 kg (I am ashamed to say I comfort ate and only now am I desperately trying to get rid of it UGH) and there she was the same weight as when she arrived. Yes, I am jealous : -(

I totally understand what you mean when you say my differences would be more subtle and something would be bothering me that I couldn't quite put my finger on!!!!! That happened all the time and I'd go home and think about it until I could come to some sort of conclusion. Then the conclusion would change the next week and then again. I kept changing my mind. One thing I'm still having difficulty with is this sense of humour issue again. I feel that whenever I make a joke it just falls flat and I get a uh-huh response. I find it so difficult to get Aussies to laugh. I am by NO MEANS the "clown of the class", I promise you...it's just that part this cultural shock thing is not getting the response you're used to. Like it's almost all topsy-turvy. When I'm not trying to be funny, they think I'm funny (but in a polite way...doesn't seem genuine) and then when I don't expect sympathy I get it and when I do hope for some TLC I don't get it. Ahaha, I know I sound HIGH maintenance but I'm really not....I'm just a confused lil expat! To be fair, I too laugh at all the wrong times. Every time I think something is truly funny and I laugh out loud I realise that it was meant to be serious. Quick expample: today when I took kid to school and all the little ones were standing in a line as they were on their way to doing technology/computers... one little girl had her cuddly bunny in her arms. So the teacher says in a very serious voice, "do we really need that bunny to go to the computer room?". Now to me that's really funny. I don't know...to me it's just funny because she said it so seriously as though she was talking to a colleague and she made it look like she truly wondered if she needed the bunny to work on a computer. Anyway, I laughed out loud and I was standing right next to the teacher but the teacher didn't even make eye contact with me. Again **CULTURAL DIFFERENCE**. Firstly, what I'm used to is that the teacher would simply say, "put that bunny away, you know the rules"...oh yes, I forgot about this...sorry jumping around all over the place here...this was one of the things right in the beginning that fascinated me: the way they deal with kids: it's always questions, questions, gently, gently (good thing) where I'm used to orders, orders, no-nonsense attitude from teachers (not much fun).

Also, if I laugh at what the teacher said, in my own culture what would happen would be that the teacher would look at me in the eye and we'd share a mutual smile together as adults and equals. We'd both smile because we'd think it funny/cute that she thought it okay to bring the toy but also she'd acknowledge me for picking up on her sense of humour and appreciate that. Oh I just don't get it!!!! I feel like I'm always doing the wrong thing. So what, April, is the rule here? Do you know? This is not the first time this sort of thing has happened. Like I don't know what to expect and I'm not sure why I am not acknowledged in situations like this. I often feel like that...like I'm invisible. I guess what I'm trying to say is that when I *think* it's my cue socially to say something, or laugh or just physically join a group, it just isn't!!!

I get you about watching commercials. Clever girl :-) I started watching TV and listening to radio as soon as I arrived just to get the gist of things. Some of the pronunciations take some getting used to...like urine being said as it's spelt instead of urin. The letter H said as Haich instead of aich (and NO I do not drop my H's in speech), and consume said "conshume". I will say conshume and haich but I don't think I'll be able to say urine instead of urin. Sorry about the word.

I see what you mean about the half cooked eggs. I do know that they like it over noodles. Actually in that case, Yummo!

About your Aunt, I find Canadian and American accents very catchy so it could be that? I loooove those two accents....I could listen to them forever...aaah, so soothing.

I loved your story about your accent and how you ordered your cocoa and salad. Roflol!! I do know what you mean though. When I spend a lot of time with my Chinese neighbour I feel I start sounding really foreign because I'm contantly trying to make it easier for her to fully understand me and it does get quite catchy too. How interesting that you talk about this a lot. You are very lucky to have a group of Aussies to talk to like this! I'm sure there are A LOT of "me too's" going around there, lol. I don't have any me too moments expcept for my dear hubby. I am relieved to say that he complained almost exactly the same as me about making Aussies laugh!! He can come up with the funniest things that used to get people back home roflolling...but here? Nothing. He says he's tried till he's blue in the face but no reaction. Actually he had me in hysterics because he came home one day saying that he *finally* hit their funny bone. When I asked him what it was, well, I'm afraid to say that to me/us it wasn't *that* funny. But he didn't care, he was just happy that they found it funny. And bonus...he said that he can repeat that same sentence once a week and they **still** find it funny. Roflol!!

Thank you for your compassion and understanding!!!!

Oh and I feel that Aussies really do have a stiff-upper-lip way about them. No complaining please. I admire them because it seems that even if they've had a rough day they just never make a big deal about it. Is this accurate or am I still seeing things too generally? Is this part of Aussie culture?

[april]

I had this huge long reply all typed up but then my computer froze on me. :-(
I will get back within the next few days (Unfortunately I work on weekends!)

[Hazel]

Damn, I hate it when that happens! When that happens to me I have a tantrum and don't bother retyping it, lol. I hope you *DO* retype yours ; -)

[synthia]

What a great thread! I wish I'd known all that when I moved to South Africa. When I moved to Japan, someone in the JET (teacher aide program for new college graduates, basically) program showed me a document from their orientation kit. It had a list of time periods, weeks 1-3, etc., and what the newly arrived person would feel. Everyone was sure they weren't going to follow that schedule, but they did. It's just part of the adjustment process, and it did help to know that.

I think that the end of three months is the worst time, since it's long enough to see most of the problems, but not long enought to develop coping skills.