How to retire in Australia without getting a 405 VISA

[_shel]

Do you have a current business? Business visas are not as simple as wanting or being able to set up a business in Australia. You have to have a proven track record of running a successful business which has or more than a specified turnover per year. You then agree to transfer that business to Australia along with its assets.

But if you can prove all that then no there is no mandatory retirement age for anyone in Australia. Bar some jobs which require good health etc you can work until you want.

[susiesan]

Originally Posted by _shel

Do you have a current business? Business visas are not as simple as wanting or being able to set up a business in Australia. You have to have a proven track record of running a successful business which has or more than a specified turnover per year. You then agree to transfer that business to Australia along with its assets.

But if you can prove all that then no there is no mandatory retirement age for anyone in Australia. Bar some jobs which require good health etc you can work until you want.

I currently own and work at a very successful business. I have 25 year proven track record. But it's not the kind of business that can be transferred-it is a wholesale distribution company. I will be selling the business when it's time to move out of the US and the proceeds of the sale would be available to transfer to Australia. This money could be used to buy or invest in another business in Oz.

My husband and I are in excellent health so that's not an issue. The problem would be finding a company or hospital in Oz that could look past our ages and hire us to get our extensive job skills/work histories.

[Maz25]

Originally Posted by susiesan

I currently own and work at a very successful business. I have 25 year proven track record. But it's not the kind of business that can be transferred-it is a wholesale distribution company. I will be selling the business when it's time to move out of the US and the proceeds of the sale would be available to transfer to Australia. This money could be used to buy or invest in another business in Oz.

My husband and I are in excellent health so that's not an issue. The problem would be finding a company or hospital in Oz that could look past our ages and hire us to get our extensive job skills/work histories.

Personally, I feel that if you are looking for sponsorship, then you will struggle on the simple basis that your husband is very close to retirement age. It is a significant expense and effort for an employer to sponsor an employee and most employers would expect that they get at least 2-3 years service (preferably a lot more!) back from the new employee.

I'm not saying that you both do not have that many years or even more left to give but if you look at the public sector, which is where most of the health jobs will be for your husband, at 62, most people have either retired or at least 2-3 years away from it, so from an employer's perspective, it's a bit of a pointless and expensive exercise to consider sponsorship as they won't get their money's worth back.

Obviously, if you had your own visa, then that would most likely change things but unfortunately, without a valid visa that entitles you to live and work in Australia, you will have your work cut out trying to find sponsorship.

[susiesan]

Originally Posted by Maz25

Personally, I feel that if you are looking for sponsorship, then you will struggle on the simple basis that your husband is very close to retirement age. It is a significant expense and effort for an employer to sponsor an employee and most employers would expect that they get at least 2-3 years service (preferably a lot more!) back from the new employee.

I'm not saying that you both do not have that many years or even more left to give but if you look at the public sector, which is where most of the health jobs will be for your husband, at 62, most people have either retired or at least 2-3 years away from it, so from an employer's perspective, it's a bit of a pointless and expensive exercise to consider sponsorship as they won't get their money's worth back.

Obviously, if you had your own visa, then that would most likely change things but unfortunately, without a valid visa that entitles you to live and work in Australia, you will have your work cut out trying to find sponsorship.

Here in the US, many people in the health care field work well into their 70s if they can, are physically able, and want to. Very few US doctors and healthcare people retire at 62. Their skills are in great demand, they have a lot to offer, and they are making good money. My husband doesn't need to retire here in the US, but we just want to get out of here and live in Australia.

We do have the money needed for the retiree investor visa but with the US FATCA law coming I'm not sure we could find an Australian bank that would take our money that needs to be deposited in OZ under the visa requirements. No one wants American customers due to the onerous paperwork that's coming . It's a catch 22-you have to invest in Oz but it could be impossible to do so.

[Maz25]

Originally Posted by susiesan

Here in the US, many people in the health care field work well into their 70s if they can, are physically able, and want to. Very few US doctors and healthcare people retire at 62. Their skills are in great demand, they have a lot to offer, and they are making good money. My husband doesn't need to retire here in the US, but we just want to get out of here and live in Australia.

We do have the money needed for the retiree investor visa but with the US FATCA law coming I'm not sure we could find an Australian bank that would take our money that needs to be deposited in OZ under the visa requirements. No one wants American customers due to the onerous paperwork that's coming . It's a catch 22-you have to invest in Oz but it could be impossible to do so.

I fully appreciate that a lot of people are choosing (or being forced by circumstances) to work well into their 70s in many countries of the world but unfortunately, when you are dependent on sponsorship, it's a completely different story as an employer has to make a realistic assessment of the financial burden involved with getting you a visa (it is a lot more difficult to get a visa after you turn 50 and there are more conditions to be satisfied for sure) and the potential benefits that they hope to reap from your employment and most of the time, the maths simply does not stack up.

Your age works against you as most employers would wonder why you left it so late to make the move and once the issue of retirement comes in, then most employers will not even consider the issue of sponsorship. Your husband is also up against a lot of ambitious and young health professionals from Europe who still have a lot of years left to give and unfortunately, employers will always prefer them as they've probably got about 30 - 40 years left to give as opposed to 5 - 10 years in your case and again from the point of view of business, it makes more sense to employ a younger person. I'm not doubting that your husband is brilliant at his job and has a lot to offer but convincing an employer of this fact can be likened to trying to get water to flow uphill!

I don't understand US law, so I won't even attempt to comment there. That said, have you spoken to a migration agent? Their first consultation is normally free and they will be able to advise you if there are other options for moving to Australia or whether you should simply consider another country.

Good luck and hope it all works out for you

[jb12]

Originally Posted by susiesan

Here in the US, many people in the health care field work well into their 70s if they can, are physically able, and want to. Very few US doctors and healthcare people retire at 62. Their skills are in great demand, they have a lot to offer, and they are making good money. My husband doesn't need to retire here in the US, but we just want to get out of here and live in Australia.

We do have the money needed for the retiree investor visa but with the US FATCA law coming I'm not sure we could find an Australian bank that would take our money that needs to be deposited in OZ under the visa requirements. No one wants American customers due to the onerous paperwork that's coming . It's a catch 22-you have to invest in Oz but it could be impossible to do so.

Your comment about people in the US not yet retiring at age 62 and working into their 70's is true. However, these people that you know were likely not sponsored to work in the US at age 62 and later. They are likely already US citizens or hold a US immigrant visa (PR) likely through family sponsorship. So the issue with Australia has nothing to do with people at this age not mentally or physically being able to do the job. It has more to do with how many years the person can contribute to the company sponsoring them. If you had to sponsor someone, a company will select a person that can contribute at least 5-10 years. Even if your husband was sponsored at age 65 when the both of you plan to move to Australia, that will likely be only a temporary visa for say 4 years (457 visa?). I don't think your husband would be qualified to apply for a PR visa due to age?

As for the US FATCA Law, why would you assume that no banks in Australia would want to take American customers just because of the paperwork? I would think they would love the money coming into their particular bank? I don't think many banks would survive without people putting their money into their bank. The extra paperwork they would need to provide to the US government would probably not be as much as when people are borrowing money from the banks. It's probably a matter of printing out documents showing how much money you have invested,etc. Don't worry about the paperwork that a bank has to provide.

Not sure how this retirement visa situation works and where you invest your money. I would suggest you and your husband make an appointment to see a tax advisor that would be knowledgeable about the FATCA Law and its requirement. Then consult with a registered Australian migration agent to explain in more detail about the requirements of the Australian retirement visa. You can find a registered migrant visa from : https://www.mara.gov.au/

Once you and your husband found out more details what the investment in Australia requires, then you can start search for which bank,etc. you need to invest the money in Australia. Probably a good idea to take a trip to Australia while on vacation to speak to different bank representatives and find out what their requirements are. Might be a little difficult to get important questions answered through email or phone especially with confidential information.

I'm not familiar at all with this retirement visa. But does that mean after the visa expires, you do not get your investment back? If not, I guess that's what it costs to live in Australia during the retirement years even though it's not long term.

[susiesan]

Originally Posted by jb12

As for the US FATCA Law, why would you assume that no banks in Australia would want to take American customers just because of the paperwork? I would think they would love the money coming into their particular bank? I don't think many banks would survive without people putting their money into their bank. The extra paperwork they would need to provide to the US government would probably not be as much as when people are borrowing money from the banks. It's probably a matter of printing out documents showing how much money you have invested,etc. Don't worry about the paperwork that a bank has to provide.

I'm not familiar at all with this retirement visa. But does that mean after the visa expires, you do not get your investment back? If not, I guess that's what it costs to live in Australia during the retirement years even though it's not long term.

Banks in many countries are already refusing to take in money from Americans and closing their accounts because of FATCA. It's happening in Switzerland, Germany, France, to name a few. My understanding is that the paperwork is so onerous and it opens them up to intrusions by the IRS of all their accounts, so they just refuse American money. There may be some banks in Australia that will set up accounts for Americans now, but once FATCA is fully implemented it could all change.

In my reading of the 405 Retiree Investor visa, once you invest your assets in Australia to get the visa, you cannot touch the money for 4 years. You do get it back if the visa is not renewed. Every 4 years you have to reapply for this visa, with the financial requirements continuing to go up. If I have gone through the expense of moving all of my possessions to OZ, and severing ties with the US, I'm not inclined to do this if it would only be for 4 years. Wherever I end up moving to in retirement, I want it to be permanent.

Are all of these migration agents in Australia? How do you find one who is knowledgeable about the 405 visa and knows about Americans moving to Australia?

[jb12]

Originally Posted by susiesan

Banks in many countries are already refusing to take in money from Americans and closing their accounts because of FATCA. It's happening in Switzerland, Germany, France, to name a few. My understanding is that the paperwork is so onerous and it opens them up to intrusions by the IRS of all their accounts, so they just refuse American money. There may be some banks in Australia that will set up accounts for Americans now, but once FATCA is fully implemented it could all change.

In my reading of the 405 Retiree Investor visa, once you invest your assets in Australia to get the visa, you cannot touch the money for 4 years. You do get it back if the visa is not renewed. Every 4 years you have to reapply for this visa, with the financial requirements continuing to go up. If I have gone through the expense of moving all of my possessions to OZ, and severing ties with the US, I'm not inclined to do this if it would only be for 4 years. Wherever I end up moving to in retirement, I want it to be permanent.

Are all of these migration agents in Australia? How do you find one who is knowledgeable about the 405 visa and knows about Americans moving to Australia?

That MARA website should represent different countries and not just in Australia. You will just have to contact a migration agent that might be located near where you live and ask if they are knowledgeable about that 405 visa. You had concern if Australia may have banks that might not take American's money,etc. Well I did a quick search and this article indicates that Australia is one of the countries working with the US in how to handle this FATCA situation: An Overview of FATCA - Baker Tilly - British Virgin Islands You can probably do more searching if there is more documentation. I don't have any statistics, but I believe there are certain number of Americans who have retired in Australia. For that reason, I would think Australia would try to do their best to comply with this new requirement so that more Americans will invest their money into Australia.

I did a quick search in the countries around Australia - Asian countries. I could not find one country that provided a permanent retirement visa. There would be a requirement to reapply after the visa expired and the investment and pension requirements. I believe Singapore had a similar amount or within the range as Australia. But I can't remember how many years it would be for. I didn't do a complete research. However, I did find that the Philippines does have a permanent non-immigrant retirement visa program called Special Resident Retiree's Visa - PRA: Philippine Retirement Authority You will have to do some additional research in google to know more about this. Then of course, there are other countries that were suggested in the previous posts for you and your husband to review.

Good luck!

[susiesan]

The financial requirements for a temporary retirement visa for NZ are about the same as for Australia, but you only have to tie up your money for 2 years. The visa is for 2 years at a time, and can be renewed. I thought I read that it can lead to permanent residence status unlike the retiree visa for OZ.

As far as the impact of FATCA in Australia, here's an article about the impact on Australian banks:
Banks 'starting to panic' over Fatca - Risk.net
Banks worldwide are beginning to tell the IRS to kiss off, we just won't accept American money.
FATCA Makes Banks Shut Out Americans - Forbes
This may not have happened in Australia yet, bit it is a possibility.

As much as I would really like to live in Australia after retirement, and invest and spend in this wonderful country, I'm going to have to look elsewhere in the region.