Australia...or Canada?

[stephhhhh]

Hi there,


I've been living in Australia for the past year and half on a 461 visa (nz family, partner is a kiwi) but I have a Canadian PR. Therefore we intend to move in Canada in the next few weeks... Because obviously my 461 status is never going to get me a PR here in oz. And basically I don't want to be just a "shadow" in a country... I want to have rights and all of them!

Excited to go but I really question myself on whether or not it is the right decision for both of us.


I would like some opinions on the life here in OZ compared to Canada.
Cost of living, job opportunities, salaries?

Thanks for your responses

[Riza2012]

Why you no try to apply for Australia 175 or 176 visa ?

I have many family in Canada, but i still chose Australia because Canada economy is in the wrong side since it is heavily dependent on the united states. Australia on the other hand shifting its direction towards Asia which is smart move for the next couple of decades..

The economy has been crashing in Canada and unemployment rising quickly, There are v limited opportunities for immigrants in general. A quick search online for jobs in canada will get u v disappointing results try it. All too common for PHDs to be driving taxi in Canada or flippin burgers it v sad.

Another problem is the weather is terrible for most of the year, too cold.

The good part is cost of living is cheaper than Australia, taxes are lower. Australia cost of living is pathetic.

One thing v common about Immigrants to Canada you will see most ppl tell you same story is that once they get the canadian passport, many many go back to home country or migrate to another country with their new passport due to limited opportunities.

[stephhhhh]

The thing is I never had any good opportunities here in oz. And I used to live in Canada and always had great opportunities! As I'm French they look for french speaking people all over the place so it makes it easier for me...

But I agree that you can have a good life here in oz as well...

[jb12]

Hi Stephhhhh,

Since it sounds like you have both lived in Canada and currently living in Australia, you know what would be better for you and your partner. You have to go where there are opportunities for you and that you can get the rights and benefits of the country. In addition, being able to speak in French is an advantage considering probably the people that were once there have moved on to other countries for other opportunities. Now they have that void.

Hi Rizza2012,
I live in the US and didn't realize Canada's unemployment is rising quickly. Probably because we have our own problems here in the US that we don't hear that much news about Canada even though the countries are neighbors. I wonder why it's the case in Canada at this time when in the US, the jobs per month is slightly increasing which lowers the unemployment.

Your comment about PHDs driving taxis or flipping burgers is not only happening in Canada. It probably happens everywhere like the US and Australia. Many new immigrants end up doing jobs that they would have never done in their own country. However, in the new country, they can't seem to get a job in their profession so they have to get a job in something.

I have read many posts on this forum and others that have new immigrants complaining when they have come to Australia and can't get a job. These are mostly people that received a visa 175/176 which means they have skills. Australia may say they have a shortage. But in a way, I think they are selective in the people they want to hire. You often will read someone posting that they have the PHD, work experience, etc. that fits the actual job. However, they are told they don't have the local work experience. Now what is this skilled immigrant supposed to do? How can someone that just arrived in the country supposed to get local work experience if these companies are not willing to give them a chance.

I guess we all need to understand not to judge people on what new job they have in the new country that isn't what their previous profession was. These people took a risk and I know majority was so that they can have a better life for their family. Many immigrants have gone through this path. It was hard in the beginning. But after so many years, they are able to prosper in their new life. Better opportunities for their children in the new country. I think some countries build up this culture where having a high ranking profession, PHD,etc. make the title so prestige. While other countries know about these titles but really don't care. People would be surprised to know that other professions like plumbers,electricians,etc.. and who have their own business due to some of these professions make pretty good money.

[Labeeb Ahmed]

Nice thread, good informative contributions.
Generally its about job and making money, both are good if ur earning exceeds or even matches your expense. Climatically for Asians, Oz is better and for Europeans, Canada can be a good choice.

[stormgal]

Originally Posted by jb12

Hi Stephhhhh,



Your comment about PHDs driving taxis or flipping burgers is not only happening in Canada. It probably happens everywhere like the US and Australia. Many new immigrants end up doing jobs that they would have never done in their own country. However, in the new country, they can't seem to get a job in their profession so they have to get a job in something.

This is true, I recently read this article:

African doctors are driving Melbourne's taxis

I have read many posts on this forum and others that have new immigrants complaining when they have come to Australia and can't get a job. These are mostly people that received a visa 175/176 which means they have skills. Australia may say they have a shortage. But in a way, I think they are selective in the people they want to hire.

I also agree that they're selective in who they hire. I think the culprit is really with small to medium businesses (it always usually is) lol. But that's why with the new upcoming points system, (which I believe is a very good system) employers will no longer be as selective in choosing a person's age, gender and general background.

But, I do wonder what will happen if the employer is not satisfied with their new employee once they find out who they are. Will it be like the 457 where they're let go and given 28 days to find a new sponsor? I wonder.

[Riza2012]

Originally Posted by stormgal

This is true, I recently read this article:

African doctors are driving Melbourne's taxis





I also agree that they're selective in who they hire. I think the culprit is really with small to medium businesses (it always usually is) lol. But that's why with the new upcoming points system, (which I believe is a very good system) employers will no longer be as selective in choosing a person's age, gender and general background.

But, I do wonder what will happen if the employer is not satisfied with their new employee once they find out who they are. Will it be like the 457 where they're let go and given 28 days to find a new sponsor? I wonder.

v sad story how skin color decides your fate, Australia sounds like apartheid South Africa or the USA in the 30's. As mentioned in the article the problem with Australia seems to be based on what i read everywhere is RACISM. Basically non whites have a v hard time finding a job despite opportunities being available. Canada on the other hand from countless people's experiences has been mainly due to lack of opportunities in general. Racism is a huge problem in Australia as i read compared to Canada or USA.

Anyway in this case well since ur french and u mentioned its easy for french to get jobs in canada

[jb12]

In regards to the doctors' situation in the article, even doctors that come to the US don't automatically find jobs. I believe majority of these doctors have to go back to do some retraining and take some exams before they will be offered a job that paid the salary of that particular job. The reason being the process and procedures learned from another country might not be the same that are followed in the US. The doctors from the other countries might be used to doing some procedure in their home country, but coming in the US, it might not be what is done. Considering in the US where there is a high number of lawsuits that occur, I'm sure these hospitals needs to make sure these new immigrant doctors are aware of the processes and procedures that the US follows. I personally knew of new immigrant doctors that had to go through this.

As for the African doctors in Australia. It didn't state if all the doctors went back to retraining and didn't get a job. Or they just didn't want to do it because they needed to find work right away. Doctors that maybe coming from the US or Canada might have be more acceptable to find a job in Australia if these countries follow the same medical procedures,etc. I'm sure they might still have to go through some short term training to familiarize what the difference could be with medical procedures.

I guess the discussion should be.. is the discrimination against what country the person is coming from? What if one of the doctors that was discussed in the article grew up and educated and worked in the US and Canada. Then decided that he/she wanted to migrate to Australia. I think this doctor's credentials might be looked differently as compared to someone's credential say from Africa? I don't think it's necessarily the color of the person's skin. But maybe the country they are coming from? Even if you already are residing in Australia and submit a resume. Your work experience and education will tell the HR specialist what country you are coming from.

Something must be going on in Australia. How many countries in the world has a skills shortage in various professions and industries? It has been going on for awhile but it looks like the Australian government and Australian companies have not yet figured out how to fix this shortage.

If there really is a shortage problem, I don't think they are utilizing the resources they have. There are probably thousands of new immigrants approved for a visa on the skilled migration program every year. The Australian government approves the visa indicating their skills are recognized in Australia. However, when these people start looking for jobs, they are not called. When companies post the jobs online, do they only review the people that applied? If they don't like any of the people that applied, do they bother to check the resumes of many people that have registered in their recruitment agency's database? The same can be applied to the many companies in Australia using their resume database as well? Someone on this forum posted that he had a friend that was a HR specialist. That friend told him anytime he sees an applicant that is applying from abroad, he doesn't bother to review the resume or consider. Is this what Australian HR professionals are being told? Why do that when Australia is in a skilled shortage? That means there are not enough skilled workers in the country. So the only way that you could probably fill the job is to find someone outside of the country?

Also, when these new immigrants are granted the visa, there is also another resume database they can enter their information for potential employers to contact them if they fit the job posting. Do employers really check this DIAC resume database?

Then I have read on this forum and the internet about immigrants granted the visa 176. This requires the immigrants to live and work in a specific area of a state for 2 years because there is a skills shortage. But then you read how these people can't fight jobs. Now why is the Australian government granting these visas when it clearly indicates that there probably is not a lot of jobs in that area? Are they approving it so these new people can start living in the state and contributing to the economy with savings from where they came from? Just because if they have no job, they are only able to survive with the money they brought over.

The Australian government really needs to communicate with its different state governments along with the companies to determine how to resolve the skills shortage. The Australian government are bringing the skilled people. But it must not be the correct profession or industry experience that they need?

Instead of a employer sponsored visa. Why don't these companies try to find jobs for the people that are already approved for a PR visa? They wouldn't need to sponsor them and they already went through the rigorous process of sending all the documents to have their skills assessed by the specific organization.

[stormgal]

Originally Posted by jb12

In regards to the doctors' situation in the article, even doctors that come to the US don't automatically find jobs. I believe majority of these doctors have to go back to do some retraining and take some exams before they will be offered a job that paid the salary of that particular job. The reason being the process and procedures learned from another country might not be the same that are followed in the US.

This here is very true. I know of someone who came from the Dominican Republic and had to take a continuing ed "bridging course" plus State exams in order to pass her dental boards. She did this and today is practicing her dentistry successfully in California.

Here in the United States, they kind of make it obvious that you can't practice unless you meet the guidelines, meaning by passing the exams and the "bridging" courses along with them.

The difference though, between Oz and the States is that for one to migrate to Oz, one has to go through a skills assessment, and then they tell you directly whether your qualifications are "suitable" and if your degree is "equivalent" to Australian standards. So why give someone a suitable skills assessment if they're not up to Australian standards? But, then again.... the article does mention that they *do* need to take special classes but they fail to do so because "everyone has big families that need to be fed"

My solution for this would be to have these doctors take and pass the exams before migrating to Oz. It should be an extra step they take, in addition to their skills assessment.

Something must be going on in Australia. How many countries in the world has a skills shortage in various professions and industries? It has been going on for awhile but it looks like the Australian government and Australian companies have not yet figured out how to fix this shortage. If there really is a shortage problem, I don't think they are utilizing the resources they have.

I honestly think that the businesses that are facing shortages are very selective in who they are employing. Someone may have a prestigious degree from a very well-known university, but perhaps they don't know how to interview well. Or maybe the person doing the interview doesn't think the person is a "good fit" - for whatever reason.

At my job, there was a very well-paying position that had been open for a good two years. It was for a Cisco-qualified engineer. The reason why it wasn't filled was straight out lack of skill. People, however, would lie about their qualifications, while on paper they looked stellar and well-qualified. Some people even had the actual certification. But the strange thing was that when you'd ask them a simple question, they would absolutely not know the answer! Even for a stupid question like what's the difference between a router and a switch - they plain would not know. So who knows at this point. It could be a combination of all of the above.

Instead of a employer sponsored visa. Why don't these companies try to find jobs for the people that are already approved for a PR visa? They wouldn't need to sponsor them and they already went through the rigorous process of sending all the documents to have their skills assessed by the specific organization.

Well, that's exactly why the new system is being implemented. No one will be able to migrate unless they're being considered for a specific job. Just like the current 457's.

[stephhhhh]

Yes here in oz they're very selective, I could only find a job in a factory! My very first time in such a job... In Canada I used to work in a bank and travel agency...

Racism is for sure a huge problem.

But again it depends where I oz!
Sydney where I am at the moment is just saturated!
Everybody comes here so the competition is high to start with.
But elsewhere is fine.

As for the jobs, my partner is a tradesman and he's making a very good income. Around $2000 a week.

He never lived in Canada, so it's a bit of a risk on his side.

In oz you can make a lot as a tradesman but in Canada you'd make a lot with a brainy job. Would this make sense?