question to the european expats living in the US

[kirikara]

Hi,
I am facing a big career move and I am very nervous about it.
I have been in the US for 4.5 years, stable in one city with the same company for 3.5 years.
I am been offered a good opportunity in that company that could be a really big stepping stone for me.
However, it comes with more hours, I d lose some of my vacation time (from 4 to 2 weeks) and the salary increase is not much.
The job sounds great but I am freaking out about the idea of going back to 2 weeks vacation.


My question for you: how do you guys cope with the vacation time in the US?
I have already pretty much taken all my days for the year if I go back to 2 weeks, and I feel completely suffocated at the idea of being stuck here with absolutely no way to visit family back home if I want to (obviously in an emergency case they d let me go) or simply take a 3 day weekend to go somewhere.
It is not that I don't want to work it is the concept of not being able to take time off if I want to or need to . Just the idea makes me feel completely panicked.

I am starting to worry about my ability to balance work and life here..

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by kirikara

I have already pretty much taken all my days for the year if I go back to 2 weeks, and I feel completely suffocated at the idea of being stuck here with absolutely no way to visit family back home if I want to (obviously in an emergency case they d let me go) or simply take a 3 day weekend to go somewhere.

First of all, make sure you understand how vacation time works in the US. The fact that you've already taken vacation this year for your current employer means nothing to your potential employer. Vacation time in the US is earned as you work - and it's likely that you will be entitled to no vacation at all until you have worked for the new employer for at least 6 months or a year.

There is no legal requirement for an employer to give you any vacation time at all, so each employer has their own policies for how much you can take and when (and if) you can take it at all. In hard economic times, some employers will require workers to take one or two days of accrued vacation, and it is not at all uncommon to find people who have rolled over their two weeks because they have not been able to "conveniently" (i.e. for the employer) take what vacation time they have accrued.

Unfortunately, you've stumbled onto the down side of Life in America. The European approach to vacation time was a real mindbender for me when I first got over here - but now that I work with my French husband in a company we own and run (and are the only employees for) I'm back to little or no vacation time in a year. When you're raised with that, it seems "normal."
Cheers,
Bev

[twostep]

You need to set your priorities before negotiating. What is more important to you - a potential step in the right direction or a three-day week end? You should be familiar with the US concept of company first by now:>) Your post sounds pretty whiny which will get you nowhere. Come up with some points why you are perfect for the new job and why you deserve a carrot immediately. This is called negotiating. Good luck!

Depending on your legal status - has your visa been discussed?

US companies have standard vacation policies as it is not regulated by law. Depending on a union or non-union environment it can be the infamous two work weeks plus certain holidays; it can be tied to a title such as VP two weeks, SVP three weeks; it can be earned in increments or given as a unit; it can be negotiated (make sure the employment contract spell ... and years thereafter ... out).

My husband does not work on Fridays during deer season and has 45 paid working days annually as vacation. I have not worked Fridays in years and vacation has been a verbal arrangement between my immediate manager and me.

Bev - vacation time roll overs are almost extinct. Some companies allow accumulation of PTO (paid time off which uses vacation/sick/personal time under one denominator) up to generally 30 days.

[kirikara]

ok thanks guys, but I think there was a misunderstanding.

I am not changing company, I am changing manager and I am already in the US and already have negotiatied what little I could. I should have been more clear.

I am getting a new job in the same company, I had an agreement with my previous two manager which the new manager refuses to agree to.
I planned this year's vacation thinking I had 4 weeks, I now will be switching to 2, meaning that I won't be able to leave for a while until I have time accrued.
the extra 2 weeks i currently have was unpaid and that is what I asked for and did not get, what was giving me some flexibility, although I never took them all.

I am very acquainted with how it works in the US, I am at a point where I had worked something out to find a balance and feel like I could still see my family while living thousands of miles away. I am scared of the change.I am not sure my career counts that much that I would be ready to give up the little time I have to see my family.
I am very glad to get a good opportunity but it makes me wonder if this is going to keep happening. the higher I will get the more difficult it will be to make it work.

And then finally, yes I sound whiny I know that and that is the issue, It is a cultural difference that is difficult to understand. To anyone here, I sound like a lazy person that just wants time off. that is not the case, I work hard, and I do well at work. It is exactly what I am fighting against, the concept that if you want a little more time off it does not mean that you are a slacker.
That is especially why I was asking for advice from other europeans on how they make it work, what was their experience, did they have time where they just had to go with it and got it better later, do they sometime work from afar...etc..

I just have not been raised with the concept of two weeks vacation and my move here was not based on making the American Dream with the mansion and the big screen tvs, it was based on falling in love with another human being and making it work. To me that is a major difference.
also I have double citizenship,so no visa issues.

thanks!

[twostep]

Do not feel alone. Culture shock when it comes to Corporate America is almost a given. Yes, generally the higher you work your way up the more time you will spend just to stay there. It is a rat race but it is the same all over. There are days I keep our cell phones in the freezer. This way I can claim with clear conscience that I did not hear it ringing:>)

Can you offer to meet in the middle - one extra week for you, one extra week for the new manager? Be careful how far you push him. Talk to him in private, butter him with how much you appreciate his interest, how you will sink your teeth into the new opportunity ...

[Bevdeforges]

Originally Posted by kirikara

I am not changing company, I am changing manager and I am already in the US and already have negotiatied what little I could. I should have been more clear.

Saw that in your original post and thought it was kind of odd. But, you've come back with the explanation.

If you can't negotiate your way around or through this, you're probably going to have to suck it up and decide what's more important to you, your work-life balance or your "career." Frankly, staying within the same company, you could find yourself at a severe disadvantage for not taking a "better" job when it is offered, particularly if the reason your turn down the position is based on the change in holiday arrangements.

You're right in that it's a huge cultural difference - due in large part to the lack of any legal mandate for vacation time in the US. Goes back to the old notion of "living to work" vs. "working to live." Having gone the other direction, I know I took plenty of flak from the US headquarters people about trying to reach fairly high mucky mucks in the European operations and being told "he's on vacation and will be back at the end of the month." Did not go down well with the US bosses, most of whom make a point of being "available" whenever they aren't actually onsite.

The only Europeans I know of who were able to negotiate extra holiday time (paid or not) in the US were those on a limited term contract (say, 2 or 3 years) who had full expat benefits (usually including a "home visit" once a year for the whole family) and were expecting to return home after their tour. Obviously this depends on your level as well as the industry you're in. But as a dual national working as a "regular employee" you have very little negotiating power unless you're the only possible candidate for the new job (in which case, you should probably hold them up for more money).

I'd also disagree slightly with twosteps comments about employment contracts - in my experience, they are rare in the US except for high level executives (usually those poached from other companies). Generally, you're stuck with whatever terms and policies are in the employee manual - and unpaid leave time is always subject to the approval of your manager.
Cheers,
Bev

[kirikara]

thanks guys!
Agreed with the fact that I can't turn down an internal opportunity (unless I want to make my life a living hell ..)
I will suck it up for now and we will see what happens. that kind of news always messes with me and my ability to stay here.. It is like all over again I am considering yet again going back to Europe. (not happening though, just considering)
It is not really healthy but I at least I am aware of it

Bev agreed on the contract.We have no contracts, employment is at will from both parties and everything is according to company policies.
oh.. and I am not the only candidate, just the one they chose, and they made that very clear during "negotiation" I am probably best for the job but clearly not the only one that could perform well.
I will figure something out to make it work psychologically.
I have already thought about going home for Xmas just for the night. If that is what needs to happen i can do that. I have not seen my sis for 2 years i can't miss this.
and then if this is really impossible, I will need to move on and at least I will have that on my resume. It will make me even more motivate to jump the gun and go back to Europe which I have been equally scared on doing not having worked there ever.Cant always be scared, heh?
it is just that life is so short. I always have that in the back of my mind.

[twostep]

@@@Kiri - the rat race is on in Europe as well. You get the vacation but you will not take it once your are in management or over 40. :>( Why does your sister not visit you? Why not have the clan spend Christmas in the US. Beware - we did it 2009.

@@@Bev - I have seen contracts and non-competes for part time flunkies. It all depends on industry and demand. Club memberships, vacations, relocation, ... the good ol' packages for US employees are still around but noone flaunts them. Actually even the US Government offers such perks. I know nothing about Kiri's professional life so I cannot offer specific pointers.

[frenchie]

Frenchie to Frenchie, let me give you my perspective.

I feel for you. I have been here for years and yet, I am going crazy for the little vacation that I get. It has gotten to a point where I have been planning my return to France for a few years.
A promotion is always good to have but remember, you work to live not the other way around. Do what makes you happy. Life is too short! I have turned down a huge promotion because it meant lots of OT and next to nothing in vacation time. The extra money was appealing but at the end of the day, I wanted to spend time with my hubby and live my life.

Good luck to you, whichever decision you chose.

[twostep]

@@@Frenchie
We worked our way through bills and taxes and found out it was beneficial for us to have me leave the rat race (right when I got where I wanted to be - grrr) and work PT.
Visiting home has turned into a chore. My folks have a nice penthouse with roof garden, are in town but above it, financially stable - the works. I cannot take the confinement, the agressive non-natives, the disappearance of lets call it better boutiques and restaurants, the decline of public safety and particularly care for national treasures/museums. Lack of parking:>)