"Qualifications"

[synthia]

One of the most confusing things to me in talking to people from outside the US, especially those from the UK, is use of the term "qualifications". I'm always being told that someone has 'tons of qualifications', only to learn that it means the person has lots of certificates certifying that they are a level 3C whatever because they have completed some course.

In the US, you are 'qualified' for a job when you have a lot of experience to indicate you will do well. We don't have certificate levels for every job under the sun. Even unionized jobs usually only have a couple of levels. My father was a carpenter. He was an apprentice, then he was a carpenter. That was it.

When I moved to South Africa, my employer was surprised that I had never been to any training classes. When I started lising all the IBM courses I'd taken, they were surprised, and wanted to know why I hadn't put them on my resume. Well, they don't mean anything. For one thing, I don't think IBM has ever not issued a certificate to someone who took a class, because if they did that, no one would pay them lots of money to send more people.

So, those who are looking to come to the US will find that no one has a clue what their various "qualifications" mean, and will place very little confidence in them if they do. People who want to come to the US should also be wary of any scheme requiring them to pay money to become a 'certified' anything in the US, unless it is in the medical field, or the few fields that require licenses, like electricians, beauticians, and plumbers.

Has anyone else run into this? Bev, what's your take?

[Jacques1]

Originally Posted by synthia

One of the most confusing things to me in talking to people from outside the US, especially those from the UK, is use of the term "qualifications". I'm always being told that someone has 'tons of qualifications', only to learn that it means the person has lots of certificates certifying that they are a level 3C whatever because they have completed some course.

In the US, you are 'qualified' for a job when you have a lot of experience to indicate you will do well. We don't have certificate levels for every job under the sun. Even unionized jobs usually only have a couple of levels. My father was a carpenter. He was an apprentice, then he was a carpenter. That was it.

When I moved to South Africa, my employer was surprised that I had never been to any training classes. When I started lising all the IBM courses I'd taken, they were surprised, and wanted to know why I hadn't put them on my resume. Well, they don't mean anything. For one thing, I don't think IBM has ever not issued a certificate to someone who took a class, because if they did that, no one would pay them lots of money to send more people.

So, those who are looking to come to the US will find that no one has a clue what their various "qualifications" mean, and will place very little confidence in them if they do. People who want to come to the US should also be wary of any scheme requiring them to pay money to become a 'certified' anything in the US, unless it is in the medical field, or the few fields that require licenses, like electricians, beauticians, and plumbers.

Has anyone else run into this? Bev, what's your take?

To my knowledge being "qualified"means go through the training write your exams and get the practical experience not by doin just the course. By doing just a course is good but to have the certification will take you much further. And most resellers need a certain amount of certified canidates to take full advantage of the mother companies benefits like discount on products etc..

[Bevdeforges]

"Qualifications" can mean radically different things in different countries. In France it is strictly your academic paperwork (bac + 5, BTS, etc.). In the US, as Synthia has said, it's a combination of professional training (usually just the base training - or just the fact of having a bachelors degree, which is the entry level for tons of jobs, no matter the subject you studied) plus on-the-job accomplishments. In the US, it's fine to have 4 years of job experience, but it's better to be able to say that you "installed a new system" or "developed a product" while you were collecting that paycheck.

In Germany, you list every training class you ever attended, and you include a copy of the certificate you got with your job application package. (They return your paperwork to you if you don't get the job.) In the US, they often will ask for grade transcripts for a recent graduate. In France, asking for grades is illegal - all an employer is entitled to know is that they completed a program, and if they received "mention" or "high mention" (a sorts of honors designation, but usually based solely on the leaving exam results).

I've found official lists of "equivalency" for qualifications to be pretty bad. When I was in Germany, the home office (in the US) wanted us to give them info on how many of our workers were "high school graduates" or "university graduates." Well, in Germany, if you're working in a factory, you probably didn't even attend a "gymnasium" (academic high school) - but chances are you did a 3 year training program starting at age 14 or 15 for the specific type of work you are doing. Now, is that a "high school diploma" or not? Which worker is better suited to the type of work they are doing? Never mind the handful of men we had who had started working in that same plant at age 14, right after the war. They had 45 or 50 years of experience (and seniority), and the US management wanted to let them go because they didn't have a high school diploma.

In many countries, businesspeople don't go to university, but to a specific "trade school" for business subjects - business, accountancy, marketing, etc. In the US, you need a college degree (in anything) to sit for the CPA exam in most states. A friend of mine in the UK apparently did his accountancy "qualification" as an apprentice. He's one of the best accountants I know, but he has no degree.

For expats, one of the biggest "challenges" is often that of explaining their qualifications to potential employers in a new country.
Cheers,
Bev

[Jacques1]

This is real interesting. Thanks alot for taking the time to explain all these concepts..and info. I'm still learning and are greatfull for these comments and suggestions!

[synthia]

I think it must, in some ways, be easier to hire someone in places that give a lot of credence to certificates, in that there is a common understanding of what that certificate means. In the US, graduating from high school can mean that you took minimum courses, including 'general math', or that you took a bunch of Advanced Placement courses and calculus. There isn't even a national standard of what the minimum is to get a high school diploma.