Quote:
Originally Posted by EllieC
You forgot smelly!! I never experienced anything like that in my 2 years there either. I have heard some stories about thai men getting pretty nationalistic when they drink in mixed farang/thai bars though. Boys will be boys.
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Oh yes, the 'farang shower' (a quick squirt of deodorant/splash of aftershave) is infamous! In hot climates the length of toenails is a problem in this respect (ask any masseuse). I wrote a
short blog partly on the subject of toenails
last year...
Yes in some circumstances I agree that certain male sensitivities can be upset, especially in alcohol-lubricated situations. The sterotype mentioned earlier can extend to the impression that Western guys (irrespective of size, shape and age) think they are God's gift to Thai women, and act accordingly. In many cases of course that stereotype is spot on. On the whole the Thai (males) are pretty cool about it, im my experience, although they cover up any simmering resentments pretty well.
Such resentments are more overtly expressed by the likes of the Khmer - previous experience of sitting minding my own business in a Phnom Penh nightclub on a couple of occasions bears this out. I was the only '
barang' in the place however, I always seek out Westerner-free locations as far as I'm able, and this has its attendant risks. Still, even then such situations were easily defused well before reaching the point of no return. Helps when you hardly drink yourself, of course.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Farang
Good one!
I see your point, but doesn't really answer my question, so k I appreciate in thought either way.
I'm in the hospitality industry and perhaps what everit is you're doing in Thailand might be more easy going. I do agree with the stereotype of Western tourist and ex-pats, but being in a percieved 5star environment it's not easy as pie to please a paying guest that puts jobs and money into local pockets and at the same time be sabai sabai. What I'm witnessing is unfair behavior on the part of some Thai's, in that some of us foriegners give alot but much is not appreciated. At least from my side I give money to my staff when they are in need, spend endless hours trainig and teaching.
Effort is always put towards fitting in, as some of us like myself are married to Thai's.
Ok, let me put it more blunt, where I lived in Samui and now in Phuket I can honestly tell you it's like the old American "Wild West", the mafia rules are more respected that the police and often the police are the mafia themselves.
I'm curious to know how long you've been in Thailand and wonder if all the smiles and good nature blocks the other side of places in Thailand. Not to say this is not a beautiful country, I just feel that people here can snap and when they do the consequences are much more grave than I would find back home where I am from.
Appreciate the reply and will enjoy reading your response...
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Full time, just over two years. I'm now a 'part-timer', 7 months in LOS, 5 in France each year (where I'd been an expat for a couple of decades). Back to full-time in Chiang Mai soon. Married to Thai, Thai daughter, as well as three Anglo-French kids.
"Much is not appreciated" you say ... there's the rub. The problem is that we don't always appreciate the same things, it's a fundamental culture clash. 'Incentivisation' is wasted on the average Thai employee as a result. Different motivations in many ways. Offer the guy whose culture has programmed him to live for the moment a performance-related bonus in X months time, and it just doesn't compute.
Plenty of imperfections in Thai society, not least a strong undercurrent of racism and a form of nationalism that can be easily channelled by the unscrupulous. The Thais are very naive in some ways, and easily manipulated.
Yes I agree cronyism, pandering to the rich, corruption etc are rampant. In your line of work it must be very difficult to remain calm at times! Still no matter what the provocation not maintaining equanimity equates to a loss of face, pure and simple. And as a farang, you would only be living up to expectations. Frustrating really because the pressure is on the farang to be twice as Thai as the Thais...
Giving money doesn't earn merit or respect mind you - it's what someone perceived to be in a certain position in the social hierarchy 'just does'. Not giving it when you are expected to earns plenty of usually silent disrespect, of course. Not quite a no-win situation, but close!
I'm still a bit bemused by the description of Thais 'snapping'. My experience is that it takes a lot of provocation to get even close to such a scenario.
Chiang Mai doesn't live up to the reputation of Phuket, Pattaya etc, but the same principles are at work. I just go with the flow. I'm a guest in Thailand, and the negatives imo are more than compensated for by the positives. Not that I could change anything if I wanted to, so rather than bang my head against the proverbial, it's
sabai sabai for me ...
Easy for me to say mind you - I don't work any more. Worked my butt off for years, took early retirement. Still from observation alone, it seems like using Western management methods in Thailand is like trying to fit a square peg into a round hole. I've seen similar in France, where US-owned corporations continue to have great difficulties trying to get both French subsidiary employees and suppliers to conform to the American model and work ethic. If it barely works in France, where there are more similarities than dissimilarities between the two cultures, it's hardly surprising that you are encountering problems where there's a much greater gulf between the two ways of life.
Anyway, that's my tuppence worth!
Good luck...